SP - General The Big Problem with Combat -- Unit collision and mass [FIX / SUGGESTION]

[five bucks]

I don't think this problem would be resolved by adjusting the physical parameters like minimum distance etc. I think this is a AI problem. For example in the RBM soldiers don't jiggle and wobble because they don't get close in the first place.

What about in confined areas eg sieges?

 

[herlock6]

+1

 

[Memoefe]

What about in confined areas eg sieges?

If team damage is on and AI knows this and act accordingly there is no point in standing in a blob even in confined areas. Take the multiplayer for example. Its rare there players are in a blob, that would be disadvantageous.

 

[Ezkia]

Another patch, and the same problem prevails... I just won't play the game and neither recommend it until this issue gets fixed, sorry.

Edit: Still no news about this? This is the only reason I have a negative review on steam right now.

 

[steffenbk1]

The issue comes from the collision resolving code - if we "smoothen" it too much then that allows agents to pass through walls and other objects. That's why we made the resolving code "harder" (Gamescom 2016 video gameplay vs now). Think of it as a tradeoff between the smoothness of collision resolution and the strictness of clipping into something. It's possible to resolve this tradeoff but at the cost of performance in sieges. We have made some improvements on the AI agent movement though which should aid with the "jittering" issue and you can expect those with a future patch. Overall, I can say that we're still working on this issue both from the physics and the AI perspectives.

Happen to know where the collision resolving code is located?

 

[xdj1nn]

collision has been an issue since forever, but the biggest offender isn't even infantry, that one is maneageable to some degree, the worst is actually cavalry charging through units as if there was nothing there, be them friendly or foe... They only stop if the ridiculous prancing effect comes into play by someone stabbing the horse, which's also quite ridiculous considering the rider gets stun-locked until the animation finishes (feels extremely uncanny)

So far I feel TW doesn't give a F about it because it should've been patched to be properly tested, if in 2 years it wasn't done, I think they want to shoehorn this crap at all costs.

 

[Ezkia]

collision has been an issue since forever, but the biggest offender isn't even infantry, that one is maneageable to some degree, the worst is actually cavalry charging through units as if there was nothing there, be them friendly or foe... They only stop if the ridiculous prancing effect comes into play by someone stabbing the horse, which's also quite ridiculous considering the rider gets stun-locked until the animation finishes (feels extremely uncanny)

So far I feel TW doesn't give a F about it because it should've been patched to be properly tested, if in 2 years it wasn't done, I think they want to shoehorn this crap at all costs.

Sadly, your last state seems true... I hope I'm wrong, but seeing that most of the community hasn't even noticed this problem and seing that patch after patch TaleWorlds isn't able to solve this problem, which WORKED WELL ON 2016, makes me think that we won't see a proper solution for it. Which also makes me think if I should just hide the game from my steam library and play Warband instead...

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I've already lowered my faith/hope so much that I only have two lifelines left to hold on to which are that they fix 100% of the jittering and that they get Sargot in place...

Still In Progress btw

 

[steffenbk1]

I've already lowered my faith/hope so much that I only have two lifelines left to hold on to which are that they fix 100% of the jittering and that they get Sargot in place...

Still In Progress btw

It was mentioned that the problem was the " collision resolving code". I've been trying to figure out where with no luck, since it was stated it fixes the issue but at cost of performance in siges.. however id like to see what it impacts but i need to find where it is first.

 

[Dejan]

Since I last posted here we have made considerable progress on the "jittering issue". You can expect it with a future patch.

Never lose hope @Terco_Viejo!

 

[SanicK]

Since I last posted here we have made considerable progress on the "jittering issue". You can expect it with a future patch.

Never lose hope @Terco_Viejo!

Amen brother!

 

[Ulfhedinn_]

Since I last posted here we have made considerable progress on the "jittering issue". You can expect it with a future patch.

Never lose hope @Terco_Viejo!

 

[Terco_Viejo]

Since I last posted here we have made considerable progress on the "jittering issue". You can expect it with a future patch.

Never lose hope @Terco_Viejo!

Let's hope that this considerable progress has been more daring in comparison to the progress you guys have made with the damage/protection issue ... which in my opinion needs even more tuning... especially the projectiles.

We'll see how it goes with the jittering... Thank you in any case for the info.

In the meantime I'll keep tuning the violin .

 

[yangot]

I don't think this problem would be resolved by adjusting the physical parameters like minimum distance etc. I think this is a AI problem. For example in the RBM soldiers don't jiggle and wobble because they don't get close in the first place.

I second this. Collision is not the only reason of jittering. AI behavior has the major contribution to this problem, every unit just want to face hug the enemy in front of them, resulting mass pushing of units from rear to front.

AI needs to understand that if they are on the 2nd line, they should be more defensive and less aggressive (that sounds like total war game, not really, since 1st line is not a 1v1 simulated fight).

 

[Ulfhedinn_]

I second this. Collision is not the only reason of jittering. AI behavior has the major contribution to this problem, every unit just want to face hug the enemy in front of them, resulting mass pushing of units from rear to front.

AI needs to understand that if they are on the 2nd line, they should be more defensive and less aggressive (that sounds like total war game, not really, since 1st line is not a 1v1 simulated fight).

Good to know.

 

[tokul43]

(Sorry my english) I think, there tree combat problem.
1) A.i don't keeping the distance
2) A.i very bad use lance and spear
3)there are too many soldiers in a small area
I take some battle record.
300 imperial veteran infantryman vs 300 valandian swordsman. The battle ends in 1.51 minutes, too fast

10 emperial heavy horseman vs 10 imperial archer. The battle ends in 3.14 minutes because cavarly miss hit with lance

100 khuzait heavy cavary vs 100 imperal legionary. imperial legionary won only 5 loss
Cavarly units useless. infantry vs infantry don't enjoyable. infantry unit atack infantry unit like zombie in 1.80
my opinion warband tld mod cavarly mechanic better than bannerlor cavarly mechanic

 

[Ulfhedinn_]

2) A.i very bad use lance and spear

Polearm is garbage in Bannerlord.

300 imperial veteran infantryman vs 300 valandian swordsman. The battle ends in 1.51 minutes, too fast

This is extremely ridiculous.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I second this. Collision is not the only reason of jittering. AI behavior has the major contribution to this problem, every unit just want to face hug the enemy in front of them, resulting mass pushing of units from rear to front.

AI needs to understand that if they are on the 2nd line, they should be more defensive and less aggressive (that sounds like total war game, not really, since 1st line is not a 1v1 simulated fight).

(Sorry my english) I think, there tree combat problem.
1) A.i don't keeping the distance
2) A.i very bad use lance and spear
3)there are too many soldiers in a small area
I take some battle record.
300 imperial veteran infantryman vs 300 valandian swordsman. The battle ends in 1.51 minutes, too fast

10 emperial heavy horseman vs 10 imperial archer. The battle ends in 3.14 minutes because cavarly miss hit with lance

100 khuzait heavy cavary vs 100 imperal legionary. imperial legionary won only 5 loss
Cavarly units useless. infantry vs infantry don't enjoyable. infantry unit atack infantry unit like zombie in 1.80
my opinion warband tld mod cavarly mechanic better than bannerlor cavarly mechanic

We have literally >2 years of EA dealing with Taleworlds to get them to understand this whole issue, there are hundreds of threads discussing this ad nauseam.... According to Dejan they are working on it and I believe his words...however we will see how well cooked that bun comes out of the oven.

 

[Ezkia]

I'm done, I lost all hope. Bannerlord is being released and battles being the main feature and still having this problem tells me clearly what TaleWorlds priorities are. Bye guys, I might look back again in three years. It really hurts, growing up playing Mount and Blade since I was 12 year after year looking at it with the same eyes... can't be more dissapointed with the secuel, I'm sorry. There are much more things to do in life.

 

[Ulfhedinn_]

I'm done, I lost all hope. Bannerlord is being released and battles being the main feature and still having this problem tells me clearly what TaleWorlds priorities are. Bye guys, I might look back again in three years. It really hurts, growing up playing Mount and Blade since I was 12 year after year looking at it with the same eyes... can't be more dissapointed with the secuel, I'm sorry. There are much more things to do in life.

+1