The Big Problem with Combat -- Unit collision and mass

Users who are viewing this thread

Still, when we're creating any infantry formation (especially shield wall), AI should try to put units with shields on the front and units with spears in 2nd-3rd rank. I think it's a very good idea to suggest the devs. Also I will try to do it by hand as you suggested, I will make 2 infantry groups (shields/spears) and see how it will work. Btw AI is always charging your archers with its cavalry so I'm thinking about creating a group of 10-15 pikemen just to protect the archers from cavalry.

If I was coding the shield wall things would be somewhat different. The outside positions of each formation would be hardcoded to fill with shields first and the second layer to fill with shields and then spears/pikes I'd also change the code so that when an enemy is within range, the individual unit would change to 'hold position' until the enemy is gone whence they return to 'shield wall'.

It's 2020 and I know how easy that code would be to write. A couple of bits are mind-bending but it's fairly straight forward.
 
This is the only thing keeping me from playing bannerlord right now. Commanding my army in battles is my favourite part of mount and blade, and the fact that big battles are so disappointing right now is something I really hope gets addressed soon.
 
This is the old engine and both the map and units got specifically polished for gamescom which is why it looks so good but you can see there are very serious hit registration and effect problems. The engine we have now is different and it literally has no polishing yet so it will take some time for getting such quality. About AI behaviours yeah, shield wall is completely broken right now and it is far better just ordering a charge or keeping them in hold order as they will charge automatically when enemy is near..
 
This is the old engine and both the map and units got specifically polished for gamescom which is why it looks so good but you can see there are very serious hit registration and effect problems. The engine we have now is different and it literally has no polishing yet so it will take some time for getting such quality. About AI behaviours yeah, shield wall is completely broken right now and it is far better just ordering a charge or keeping them in hold order as they will charge automatically when enemy is near..
Yeah this is another thing I hope they address. I wish there was a way to tell my men to actually HOLD position rather than hold for a bit until they see a guy thats kinda close then charge at them. My lines break and run around a lot more in bannerlord than they did in warband.
 
I don't suppose the array of soldiers used to create a formation is made in any particular order so there's no telling who would take the front or rear.
Try this instead - set your shields to group 1 and your spears to group 5, then order 1 into a shield wall and place group 5 behind. I do this to place crossbows in front of archers. If you select everyone and then move the banner and click without giving any new orders, the whole army will move forward and keep their formation relative to each other.

In Viking Conquest, Shield wall formation actually automatically put people with shields in front and even arrange the ranks according to weapon length, so short weapons in front and longer in the back, so that the spear guys can actually reach over and fight at the same time as the row in front of them. Other formations also arrange troops according to certain rules, mostly strong first, weaker behind.

If Bannerlord cannot do that, then it is a huge step backward.
 
Recently I've been playing a more army building oriented play through and i have to say that the "blob combat" is also a huge issue when you are trying to have your men hold a position, but then if even a small amount of enemies get near to them they break formation and just try to hug the opposing side as much as possible.
 
Recently I've been playing a more army building oriented play through and i have to say that the "blob combat" is also a huge issue when you are trying to have your men hold a position, but then if even a small amount of enemies get near to them they break formation and just try to hug the opposing side as much as possible.
Yeah it is ridiculous and looks super silly. I just want my guys to stay in formation and not run at the enemy to try and 1v1 3 guys clipped into eachother.
 
My personal opinion on this is it doesn't make sense to me that combat specifically between AI has to be subjected to the same level of physics collision reliance as the player. The player is the only one who appreciates the feedback from a heavily physics dependent combat resolution.

I feel like combat resolution between AI fighting could be made to use less physics/collision/hitbox reliance, and add a bit more CRPG style hit%, block% crit% auto-attack/ autoblock fighting when fighting amongst themselves, with values derived from troop stats, especially since physics is already particularly janky and makes agents shuffle and bounce around in mob situations, and collision being such a mess, creating for a very chaotic and inconsistent melee combat simulation. It will also remove the need for every single AI to constantly track its movement vectors vs target projected vectors, attack/block direction, attack animation timing calculations, and predictions. AI simply gets in range to target enemy AI, makes correct facing and distance adjustment, makes attack/defense rolls, resolved and reflected through a bit of movement and animation.

How much does it matter what goes on under the hood for resolution between AI fighting, when player won't see most of it in a large battle, since we're too busy fighting ourselves or giving orders while focusing more on troop formations and position anyway. I'd care more that my elite infantry is holding the line while fighting and defending effectively and my cavalry lancing enemy archers reliably, but it's hard to make the AI be reliable while subjecting it to a very unreliable mob physics, messing up its calculations with a slight bump, bad collision or a minor shuffle.

Perhaps the physics collision-based combat resolution could only apply to player (when striking at an AI agent) and AI targeting the player, where the impact and feedback of it matters.
 
Back
Top Bottom