Spears are weak.

[dealman]

Yes I got the damage tweak done, thanks a lot for that. However, like you, I'm trying to make the a new custom damage model.
I'm also trying to mod couch lancing with no luck.

SandboxAgentApplyDamageModel should have an overrideable method called CalculateCouchedLanceDamage which I believe is what you'd want to override in your own damage model.

 

[sjblack2014]

SandboxAgentApplyDamageModel should have an overrideable method called CalculateCouchedLanceDamage which I believe is what you'd want to override in your own damage model.

Thanks, but I'm not trying to mod the damage. I made a lance that has a lot of reach but can only be couched (no active stab), and I'm trying to get the AI to use it well. Right now the AI uses it pretty well against infantry, but against cav, they'd switch to their secondary weapon and never switch back after the first charge. They'd even switch to *fists* if I remove their secondary, which is quite funny to see.

To fix this I'm thinking reducing the speed requirement for couching, or reinstating the active stab, but give it a conditional move_diff that makes the active stab reach no further than the couch.

 

[bigbalzzz]

This is a feedback towards both Single and Multiplayer.

Spears in the game are currently all considerable short to at most medium spears, both due to their lengths and improper way of holding and placement on the characters hand.
They also possess too little damage and besides than on horseback, they aren't really as effective as they should actually be.

At times, when fighting someone with a sword, it feels like you both have about the same reach, when even a short spear should outreach a long sword most of the time.
That is precisely why spearmen footwork is entirely directed to keeping a distance and swordsmen footwork is directed to closing in.

A true long spear should be about twice the size of the current longest spear in the game. (Image examples)

You can see that a long spear, at times, can be almost twice the size of a person.

And cavalry trained to be able to hold with one hand at between the half mark to 3/4 mark to the back of the pole, which would leave almost 1 to 1 and a half human bodies of length remaining.

Even for ground melee infantry, spears were mostly held closer to the back.

And lastly, comes the matter of couch lancing, which mostly was held even closer to the back of the pole, leaving almost the whole of the spear's length to the front.
You can clearly see this through jousting and how a joust lance looks like.

Their damage also needs to be upped quite a bit. Even with an armor or a helmet, the minimum damage that should be registered should be about 10 or so, as spears easily penetrated or at least dented armor and shield.
As it currently is, at times, you can strike with a lance and see it cause 3 or even 1 of damage, so not only are we losing length through improper technique, its damage is too low.

I ask the dev team to truly consider taking the time to fix the current state of spears and couch lancing in the game.


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deGoucan Scrolls Index

i am taking the first pic as my dp

 

[chiconspiracy]

1. No this is fact that is backed up by history you are the only dilusional one around here please note you are the only one stating such drivel.
2. You obviously have no comprehension of the time period George Silver lived in the weapons, armor and tactics of the time.
During this time plate armour was at it's pinnacle and gunpowder weapons were ever improving and taking more of a role on the battlfield.
And NO the pike is not a spear thats why it is called a pike not a spear jesus its not hard is it.
3. Spears were better than swords in duels it is a fact a soldier with weeks/months of training could fend off and defeat swordsmen with years of training again this is fact and backed up by evidence.
4. All you can spout is Musashi this Musashi that and there is debate over if his deeds were real or exagerated whereas the training documents that you like to dissmiss are real and were used. You also like to try and dismiss anything that is contrary to you fairy tale.

Seriously nowhere can i find anyone that says the sword was better than the spear and that search goes back to when i thought the same as you the difference being i am open to learning and educating myself.
It's like all the myths that surround the Katana oh it was folded 2000 times to make it stronger it can cut through anything nonsense.
The reason a Katana was folded was to remove impurities and it wasnt 2000 times that would have had the opposite effect as you would just remove all the carbon. And there are plenty of Eurpean swords that cut just as well and better.
Honestly you are completely clueless about histroy and it is obvious you have fallen for the romanticized notion about swords made worse by their portrayal in film and tv.


Spear can both cut and thrust
Spear thrusting power is superior Sword has superior cutting power (which armor was better at dealing with)
Spear has far more range/reach
Spear thrust is far quicker than a sword thrust or cut
Spear takes far less training too use we are talking weeks/months compared to years.
And again i will reiterate that of course a swordsmen can defeat a spearmen but the advanatage is with the spear from the start it is accepted fact.

Lol, you're probably wasting your time. He has read some mysterious "treatise" on Musashi that claims spears are for anti-cavalry primarily (though he refuses to share where exactly he found this information, and when I looked up the quote he used, I only found it as a random internet comment). He has ZERO sources to back up his idiotic claims, so he should probably just be ignored, as he ignores the extensive period depictions in Matt Easton's video (which he probably didn't even bother watching) showing knights in the 100 years war using lances specifically modified for foot combat while wearing longswords at their side (which he claims were their favored primary weapon). He is also pretending that we only used George Silver as a source, when it was also agreed upon by Monte, Manciolino, and Swetnam, and calling the very clear illustrations of the likes of Mair and Die Blume des Kampfes (who literally produced treatises on armored combat and dueling for nobility) showing them using spears as "random artwork".