LyonExodus
Veteran
Just so you know fellow Lords: this post is still relevant in 1.6. & 1.6.1. as no much as happened to the units or AI. i will update this page when and if some changes happen, everything said below about weapons and Cavalry is still pretty much untouched.
Another reason is, at the time i made this stuff, a few months ago, i couldn't really find any "good enough" info on Unit Vs Unit performance, or as in the case of my testing 500 Vs 500. And also doesn't seem like many new people in the community can access them easily, since the only way to get them in the past was catching me on Twitch and insert a command in chat.
DISCLAIMER: Some of the units are heavily dependent on "Battle Size". for example: Crossbowmen perform the better the smaller the size, since their lack of ammo is less impactful, at least that's what it seems.
IMPORTANT: The Enciclopedia may be very deceiving when watching for INFANTRY Sidearms. Some of them can spawn with different weapons.
Spreadsheets go as follow:
INFANTRY:
Gear here a makes a huge difference, a slow swinging sword can't really be carried by an high level of 1 Handed ( Aserai Veteran )
Maces are the way to go. So damn good against armor and they deal Huge damage even against unarmored dudes.
INFANTRY that gets maces:
Legionaries (50%)
Seargents (33%)
The most important pieces of armor for an Infantry unit are HEAD and ARM, Those 2 are the "way" more likely to be hit during melee engagements. Body is not so important for "line Infantry" since against archers they have a shield and can slowly charge towards them.
Another thing to keep in mind is that THROWING weapons are generally really bad on Infantry lines. There are some cases in which they can make the difference but after all the 1800 Hours that i played this game they are almost always just a good way for your guys to get an arrow or another Jav to the face, and nobody likes that.
Good thing you can tell them to hold fire and keep their shield up using "shield wall", when the 2 are combined and Charge is added you get a -50 flat casualties reduction on average during 1St Engagements.
RANGED:
Now this was my very 1St Test i try to run, spreadsheet isn't the best i know.
There are 3 rounds in which the worst performing guys ( class dependent, so Crossbowmen will advance in some cases even when outperformed ) will get discarded, those are marked in RED.
When it comes to RANGED units battle size can make the difference. the smaller the size the more crossbows you want, don't think any of them will still beat the Fians Champ.
ARROW and BOW here can make or break a unit, look for example at the PALATINE GUARD, best armor of any Standard T5 archer and a really good bow, unfortunately all of this can't carry the lack of a 2X quiver, making the PALATINE one of the worst performing standard units at 1K Battle Size (They are probably way better at smaller sizes but why not go for the Crossbowmen at that point)
When it comes to ARMOR and SIDEARM i don't think those make much of a difference if the INFANTRY can't get to them, if i were to look at anything i would give priority to BODY and HEAD. also Empire Sergeants spawn with 50% maces so you may want them instead of Sharpshooters for that melee boost.
And don't forget to use LOOSE formations for archers or the backline won't shoot.
CAVALRY:
Now the Big Overrated Boys, i know you don't like it but they are, at least at 1K Battle Size.
Similar case to the Infantry guys THROWING weapons are really bad, they don't help out an already struggling AI and they tend to get the Cav rider stuck somewhere or shot down by arrows.
HORSE ARMOR IS IMPORTANT: As you can see from the Data the Cav that struggles the most are the ones with under 40 HORSE ARMOR. now combine that with a short weapon ( Battanian Skirmisher ) or Javs ( Sturgian Horse Riders ) and you get quite a ****ty unit.
SHIELD WALL IS THE WAY TO GO: When set on CHARGE the most success i found both on the field and during tests, was SHIELD WALL, HOLD FIRE, CHARGE.
To keep in mind "When set on charge is Highlighted for a reason. CAV moves very slowly when told to shield wall and move around MANUALLY.
For MANUAL management i suggest SKIEN (suggest to me by WhiteRhino, an active member of the Twitch community) or LINE.
SKIEN: This Formation will make them move a bit slower then line and tighter together, making them less likely to get STUCK in INFANTRY lines, and also has the little positive effect of making them more accurate.
LINE: If you don't like SKIEN.
Overall Cav is maybe the hardest Group to manage, giving me and many more people Headaches on the field.
THE CASE FOR THRUSTING LANCES AND JAVS:
They are bad, simple.
No, let's talk more about them:
They confuse INFANTRY UNITS and CAV alike, the weapon for FOOT UNITS is just too long, making them miss or deal close to no damage. a similar behavior can be seen with JAVS also.
You are right, that Spearman form Sturgia may stop an horse and get the RIDER killed in an open and CHAOTIC BATTLEFIELD. but also remember, he will probably get destroyed when engaged VS INFANTRY, so... does he really help? I would say no.
HORSE ARCHERS:
I don't have a spreadsheet for this one since i think for many people it's pretty obvious.
Khuzait: They are the way to go, 2X Quiver, Decent Bow and some Horse Armor.
Khan's Guards: Khuzait but better, also they get a GLAIVE which is the best weapon for Cav AI ( Fun fact, a group of KHAN'S when set on hold fire, can kill most Cav units in a 1V1 )
Aserai: 9\10 guys. best in pretty much everything that is important but the lack of the 2nd quiver really drags them down. but you also get a shield and a decent sword for later in the fights.
Bucellarii: Why are they so bad? many reasons, just stay away from them unless you really want a cheap Horse Archer option in your party\army.
Hope this was helpful to many of you. This is all the data i shared in the past few months on my Twitch Channel and that i have gathered playing this Good Game for over 2200H by now.
To the Devs, hope you can find the data and the info useful and keep up the great work. 1.5.10. was brilliant.
To any of you who are interested in checking my Twitch Channel: I am live 6\7 days a week playing Bannerlord at the best of my abilities.
Another reason is, at the time i made this stuff, a few months ago, i couldn't really find any "good enough" info on Unit Vs Unit performance, or as in the case of my testing 500 Vs 500. And also doesn't seem like many new people in the community can access them easily, since the only way to get them in the past was catching me on Twitch and insert a command in chat.
DISCLAIMER: Some of the units are heavily dependent on "Battle Size". for example: Crossbowmen perform the better the smaller the size, since their lack of ammo is less impactful, at least that's what it seems.
IMPORTANT: The Enciclopedia may be very deceiving when watching for INFANTRY Sidearms. Some of them can spawn with different weapons.
Spreadsheets go as follow:
INFANTRY:
LyonExodus Infantry Vs X Testing
Vs Infantry FACTION\UNIT,Vs LEGIONARY,Vs AXEMAN,Vs SERGEANT,Vs DARKHAN,Vs OATSHWORN,Vs A. VETERAN,Vs WILDLINGS,Vs SPEARMAN,LOST UNITS,RESULTS,ORDER BATTANIA,T1,T2,T3,T4,T5,T6,T7,T8,KIA,RESULTS,ORDER WILDLING,-330,-129,155,-152,266,235,360,267,2514,84,00,6 OEATSHWORN,-182,213,111,37,238,385,222,3...
docs.google.com
Gear here a makes a huge difference, a slow swinging sword can't really be carried by an high level of 1 Handed ( Aserai Veteran )
Maces are the way to go. So damn good against armor and they deal Huge damage even against unarmored dudes.
INFANTRY that gets maces:
Legionaries (50%)
Seargents (33%)
The most important pieces of armor for an Infantry unit are HEAD and ARM, Those 2 are the "way" more likely to be hit during melee engagements. Body is not so important for "line Infantry" since against archers they have a shield and can slowly charge towards them.
Another thing to keep in mind is that THROWING weapons are generally really bad on Infantry lines. There are some cases in which they can make the difference but after all the 1800 Hours that i played this game they are almost always just a good way for your guys to get an arrow or another Jav to the face, and nobody likes that.
Good thing you can tell them to hold fire and keep their shield up using "shield wall", when the 2 are combined and Charge is added you get a -50 flat casualties reduction on average during 1St Engagements.
RANGED:
LyonExodus Bannerlord 5.9 Ranged Testing
Test 1 FACTION,KILL DIFF T1,KILL DIFF T2,KILL DIFF T3,C,RESULTS,Moves to round 2 VLANDIA,T1,T2,T3,RESULTS MILITA VET,403,449,421,424,33,Y,Method,499 falxmen advancing in shieldwall vs 499 hold pos archers. C column is number of trails where archers took casualties SHARPSHOOTERS,407,415,457,426,33,Y
docs.google.com
Now this was my very 1St Test i try to run, spreadsheet isn't the best i know.
There are 3 rounds in which the worst performing guys ( class dependent, so Crossbowmen will advance in some cases even when outperformed ) will get discarded, those are marked in RED.
When it comes to RANGED units battle size can make the difference. the smaller the size the more crossbows you want, don't think any of them will still beat the Fians Champ.
ARROW and BOW here can make or break a unit, look for example at the PALATINE GUARD, best armor of any Standard T5 archer and a really good bow, unfortunately all of this can't carry the lack of a 2X quiver, making the PALATINE one of the worst performing standard units at 1K Battle Size (They are probably way better at smaller sizes but why not go for the Crossbowmen at that point)
When it comes to ARMOR and SIDEARM i don't think those make much of a difference if the INFANTRY can't get to them, if i were to look at anything i would give priority to BODY and HEAD. also Empire Sergeants spawn with 50% maces so you may want them instead of Sharpshooters for that melee boost.
And don't forget to use LOOSE formations for archers or the backline won't shoot.
CAVALRY:
LyonExodus 1.5.9 Cav Vs X Testing
Vs Archers FACTION\UNIT,TEST 1,TEST 2,TEST 3 ,LOST UNITS,RESULTS,ORDER,CAV VS RANGED ( MIXED) BATTANIA,T1,T2,T3,KIA,RESULTS,ORDER,498 Cav units Vs 249 Sharp and 249 Marksman HORSEMAN,141,104,216,1018,153,67,5,Cavalry was told to Shield wall and Charge SKIRMISHER,-200,-126,-166,1363,-164,9 ( Last )
docs.google.com
Now the Big Overrated Boys, i know you don't like it but they are, at least at 1K Battle Size.
Similar case to the Infantry guys THROWING weapons are really bad, they don't help out an already struggling AI and they tend to get the Cav rider stuck somewhere or shot down by arrows.
HORSE ARMOR IS IMPORTANT: As you can see from the Data the Cav that struggles the most are the ones with under 40 HORSE ARMOR. now combine that with a short weapon ( Battanian Skirmisher ) or Javs ( Sturgian Horse Riders ) and you get quite a ****ty unit.
SHIELD WALL IS THE WAY TO GO: When set on CHARGE the most success i found both on the field and during tests, was SHIELD WALL, HOLD FIRE, CHARGE.
To keep in mind "When set on charge is Highlighted for a reason. CAV moves very slowly when told to shield wall and move around MANUALLY.
For MANUAL management i suggest SKIEN (suggest to me by WhiteRhino, an active member of the Twitch community) or LINE.
SKIEN: This Formation will make them move a bit slower then line and tighter together, making them less likely to get STUCK in INFANTRY lines, and also has the little positive effect of making them more accurate.
LINE: If you don't like SKIEN.
Overall Cav is maybe the hardest Group to manage, giving me and many more people Headaches on the field.
THE CASE FOR THRUSTING LANCES AND JAVS:
They are bad, simple.
No, let's talk more about them:
They confuse INFANTRY UNITS and CAV alike, the weapon for FOOT UNITS is just too long, making them miss or deal close to no damage. a similar behavior can be seen with JAVS also.
You are right, that Spearman form Sturgia may stop an horse and get the RIDER killed in an open and CHAOTIC BATTLEFIELD. but also remember, he will probably get destroyed when engaged VS INFANTRY, so... does he really help? I would say no.
HORSE ARCHERS:
I don't have a spreadsheet for this one since i think for many people it's pretty obvious.
Khuzait: They are the way to go, 2X Quiver, Decent Bow and some Horse Armor.
Khan's Guards: Khuzait but better, also they get a GLAIVE which is the best weapon for Cav AI ( Fun fact, a group of KHAN'S when set on hold fire, can kill most Cav units in a 1V1 )
Aserai: 9\10 guys. best in pretty much everything that is important but the lack of the 2nd quiver really drags them down. but you also get a shield and a decent sword for later in the fights.
Bucellarii: Why are they so bad? many reasons, just stay away from them unless you really want a cheap Horse Archer option in your party\army.
Hope this was helpful to many of you. This is all the data i shared in the past few months on my Twitch Channel and that i have gathered playing this Good Game for over 2200H by now.
To the Devs, hope you can find the data and the info useful and keep up the great work. 1.5.10. was brilliant.
To any of you who are interested in checking my Twitch Channel: I am live 6\7 days a week playing Bannerlord at the best of my abilities.
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