1.1.0 Caravan party size change?

[hairlessOrphan]

Not sure if bug or intended, but caravan sizes are now set to 30, and the caravan leader's Stewardship skill no longer increases that? Bye bye to all my high-tier troops I donated to protect my caravans ?.

Leaves me wondering two things:
1) Is there any reason to put in leveled companions to lead caravans?
2) Is there any way to protect caravans? I know the patch wanted to explicitly make them riskier, but it now looks like caravans are strictly luck-based gambling i.e. no decision-making on the part of the player will effect the return on the initial ante?

Protip: cheat mode lets you ctrl-click teleport around the map, you can use this to locate all your pre-existing caravans and grab those troops back before they desert because of party cap.

 

[captinjoehenry]

That is really dumb. Just making them be attacked more often makes sense. But making it so you can no longer protect them is just dumb. Hopefully it's just a bug

 

[kwando]

They asked earlier on the forums if they had to change the caravans and they did it seems. They made them 18k and I lost my first caravan after 3 days. Nice now I gotta baby sit some caravans and pick them up at all random cities when my companion gets captured. They should've left this alone and focus on more important matters, but nah 'the players are making money we can't have that.'

 

[Nordmann]

They should've left this alone and focus on more important matters, but nah 'the players are making money we can't have that.'

They do seem a bit obsessed with it at the moment, when there are definitely bigger issues in need of their attention. I don't understand why money making nerfs are such a priority at this time.

 

[kwando]

At least make it so I can send a companions party with my caravan group to defend them. If they wanna nerf they gotta use the brains too but it seems they wanna do too many things in 1 swoop. I don't understand why they aren't more focused on fixing bugs and glitches atm, create a whole new patch for trading later this year call it 1.4.0 the trading patch create some ideas on a board if you got them now and fix the isse then.

 

[Watercrown123]

They do seem a bit obsessed with it at the moment, when there are definitely bigger issues in need of their attention. I don't understand why money making nerfs are such a priority at this time.

It honestly has made me pretty much quit the game. My preferred play style is to focus on small skirmishes with bandits and the occasional tournament to build up money to buy my first workshop/caravan, then repeat until I can easily afford 50+ elite units.

First they nerfed tournaments into irrelevance for me and now they’re nerfing caravans into irrelevance so one of my first big goals is now gone and apparently according to some other posts they’re starting to nerf specific workshops again so that will be useless soon enough. Add on top of that that they decreased the income from smelting weapons so now I can barely earn any money from fighting bandits... I was already annoyed by the early game grind before since there’s virtually nothing that truly interests me in said early game. Now, it’s so oppressive that even with close to 20 mods installed I have no interest in playing more because I’d literally have to straight up cheat and give myself about 30k right off the bat to actually enjoy myself at all.

 

[JoRocky]

I think its fine to make Caravans a more risky investment as long as they are (way) more profitable than Workshops. So you could choose between higher risk higher reward or safe and lower income (or doing both ofc ).
But limiting the party size doesn't fit to the concept of Leader bound party size limits. I hope this is a bug/not intended and that they are going to fix this.

And for me money making is as good as before, because i'm basicly just trading, and just fighting bandits/looters which crosses my way. If you trade relative good than you're able to get to a solid amount of money. I'm atm at ~200k in Spring 1088 (Day 314) with wasting resources for smithing, and getting 3 caravans (2 got raided after new patch, made 1 more for testing) and 3 workshops. So this way of money making is still good

 

[kwando]

I think its fine to make Caravans a more risky investment as long as they are (way) more profitable than Workshops. So you could choose between higher risk higher reward or safe and lower income (or doing both ofc ).
But limiting the party size doesn't fit to the concept of Leader bound party size limits. I hope this is a bug/not intended and that they are going to fix this.

Sure it's okay but at least counter it with something you can't just nerf something and expect it to be fine. It's an early acces game they should plan these kind of nerfs in fixes not just do them and see what happens.

 

[Havada]

Just give the player control over what's your caravan doing. Let the player set trade routes etc.

 

[madeking]

im okay with having a caravan be more vulnerable but if they are they should be significantly cheaper. Being able to control them and keep them in safer areas as Havada suggested would also help.

 

[mexxico]

It is not a bug.

If your caravans are 60-80 people they are 99% safe again. We cannot get what we want (high risk-high profit). They are making you 0.5-1K profit each day. Their initial cost is 18K. Even if one year they survive you already make good profit. Caravans cannot be your only or main income source for years.

There are several income sources at game and you do not have to follow only one :
-castles / towns : 20% of prosperity as tax
-villages : 50% of profit from sold items are taken as tax
-workshops (everybody were runinng same 1-2 workshops, this is why pottery shop is nerfed, pottery shop was creating 2 potteries from 1 clay and this is way more profitable compared to other conversations thats why it is nerfed)
-caravans : they are making trade and you get 20% of their money when their capital passes 10K.
-battles : you get loot from enemy deaths, you get woundeds as prisoner
-tournaments

When you watch gameplays lots of people were feeding their armies with 1-2 caravans however caravans are only one small game element they should not be your main money source. If you feel they are useless or if you are in a risk group (if you have lots of enemies currently or bandits are overpopulated) you do not have to form a caravan. If you want more money sources you should try to get more fortifications you should increase your relation with other clans (I accept which is hard currently - there are less ways to get relation (will increase by time), one way is voting for them in elections by spending influence)

If you execute every lord you caught bandits are overpopulated in long term play. So your caravans are in more risk ofc. What you did in past have an effect in future. In future there can be new perks for giving your caravans +10 party size maybe but more than this is OP.

Caravans are good at early and mid game however in late game you should find other sources.

Q : Why forming a caravan costs 18K ?
A : You are giving 10K as initial money to caravan. They are buying their first trade goods with this money and all trade is initiated from this 10K. 8K is cost of 30 men you get. These troops are level 16/21/26 troops. They should be at least 250 denars per each one.

By the way Stewardship skill level of companion can give extra party size to caravans too in future however this will be so low compared to their normal effect when they form clan party. Trade skill is most important skill you should consider while selecting a leader to your caravan. (I accept there are less companions with good trade skill, however I am not dealing with this part)

Q : Why player cannot give trade routes?
A : It can be added in future. After major problems are solved.

 

[kwando]

It is not a bug.

If your caravans are 60-80 people they are 99% safe again. We cannot get what we want (high risk-high profit). They are making you 0.5-1K profit each day. Their initial cost is 18K. Even if one year they survive you already make good profit. Caravans cannot be your only or main income source for years.

There are several income sources at game and you do not have to follow only one :
-castles / towns : 20% of prosperity as tax
-villages : 50% of profit from sold items are taken as tax
-workshops (everybody were doing same 1-2 workshops, this is why pottery shop is nerfed, pottery shop was creating 2 potteries from 1 clay and this is way more profitable compared to other conversations thats why it is nerfed)
-caravans : they are making trade and you get 20% of their money when their capital passes 10K.
-battles : you get loot from enemy deaths, you get woundeds as prisoner
-tournaments

When you watch gameplays lots of people were feeding their armies with 1-2 caravans however caravans are only one small game element they should not be your main money source. If you feel they are useless or if you are in a risk group (if you have lots of enemies currently) you do not have to form a caravan. If you want more money sources you should try to get more fortifications you should increase your relation with other clans (I accept which is hard currently - there are less ways to get relation (will increase by time), one way is voting for them in elections by spending influence)

If you execute every lord you caught bandits are overpopulated in long term play. So your caravans are in more risk ofc. What you did in past have an effect in future. In future there can be new perks for giving your caravans +10 party size maybe but more than this is OP.

Caravans are good at early and mid game however in late game you should find other sources.

We are not saying you can't nerf and plan just do it in a seperate patch and stop changing so much and worry how the gameplay is at the moment. Fix bugs and glitches then tend to all those others things once u got those down. You are nerfing something but not fixing the way companions have to be picked up now or giving us the ability to interact with our caravans and give them orders like somone already said which route they walk, or send a patrol with them who guard them. These kind of things have to be fixed at a diffrent time, it just seems like you're a bunch of amateurs at the moment (no offense). Do 1 thing first then the other yes workshops had to be fixed they earned way to much but caravans are quite stable how they were for the moment.

 

[R4MPZY]

Early game caravans are a good way of earning money, but they were never meant to be a "safe" income, my caravan had a party of 120 and in the rare cases it had to run from a 300+ army it got 6.5 movement speed?

Even now after the caravan and workshop nerfs i am still making 20k each day with 200 tier 5-6 troops and 4 parties total, build your way up to the top, and you will remain there.

We are not saying you can't nerf and plan just do it in a seperate patch and stop changing so much and worry how the gameplay is at the moment. Fix bugs and glitches then tend to all those others things once u got those down. You are nerfing something but not fixing the way companions have to be picked up now or giving us the ability to interact with our caravans and give them orders like somone already said which route they walk, or send a patrol with them who guard them. These kind of things have to be fixed at a diffrent time, it just seems like you're a bunch of amateurs at the moment (no offense). Do 1 thing first then the other yes workshops had to be fixed they earned way to much but caravans are quite stable how they were for the moment.

I hardly think you are in a position to say how they HAVE to work on their own game ? You know you bought into an EA game where at any time a patch can change something drastically, and yes they are bug fixing what they can during these patches aswell.

There is still much work to be done we all know that, but they first have to take one step to see if they can take another step forward or 2 steps back.
If you know everything so much better apply for an internship.

 

[madeking]

It is not a bug.

If your caravans are 60-80 people they are 99% safe again. We cannot get what we want (high risk-high profit). They are making you 0.5-1K profit each day. Their initial cost is 18K. Even if one year they survive you already make good profit. Caravans cannot be your only or main income source for years.

There are several income sources at game and you do not have to follow only one :
-castles / towns : 20% of prosperity as tax
-villages : 50% of profit from sold items are taken as tax
-workshops (everybody were runinng same 1-2 workshops, this is why pottery shop is nerfed, pottery shop was creating 2 potteries from 1 clay and this is way more profitable compared to other conversations thats why it is nerfed)
-caravans : they are making trade and you get 20% of their money when their capital passes 10K.
-battles : you get loot from enemy deaths, you get woundeds as prisoner
-tournaments

When you watch gameplays lots of people were feeding their armies with 1-2 caravans however caravans are only one small game element they should not be your main money source. If you feel they are useless or if you are in a risk group (if you have lots of enemies currently or bandits are overpopulated) you do not have to form a caravan. If you want more money sources you should try to get more fortifications you should increase your relation with other clans (I accept which is hard currently - there are less ways to get relation (will increase by time), one way is voting for them in elections by spending influence)

If you execute every lord you caught bandits are overpopulated in long term play. So your caravans are in more risk ofc. What you did in past have an effect in future. In future there can be new perks for giving your caravans +10 party size maybe but more than this is OP.

Caravans are good at early and mid game however in late game you should find other sources.

Q : Why they are 18K ?
A : Because you are giving 10K as initial money to caravan. They are buying their stuff with this money and all trade is initiated from this 10K. 8K is cost of 30 men you get. These troops are level 16/21/26 troops. They should be at least 250 denars per each one.

By the way Stewardship skill level of companion can give extra party size to caravans too in future however this will be so low compared to their normal effect when they form clan party. Trade skill is most important skill you should consider while selecting a leader to your caravan. (I accept there are less companions with good trade skill, however I am not dealing with this part)

while i agree with your reasoning, do you have any statistics on how long on average these caravans survive? ( i dont as ive just downloaded the beta ) Buy my guess is they will rarely survive long enough to pay back the 18k investment.

 

[Bob Gnarly]

Caravans were too good and safe a source of income, once you make it to mid-game you're rolling in money. Nerfs to income are sorely needed, so I approve.

One thing I would like to see is if you could designate the trade routes they take, so you instruct them to take a safer trade route, but not earn as much or you could take the risk and get them to take more lucrative but dangerous routes.

 

[Cleo]

very dissapointing change . caravns are a scam now " oh you invested 18k in this caravan .. aaaand thye gone "

 

[Nordmann]

very dissapointing change . caravns are a scam now " oh you invested 18k in this caravan .. aaaand thye gone "

It's better to save that 18k, and then upgrade your armour and weapons with it. They did the same thing in Warband, making income from anything other than battles utterly worthless.

 

[kwando]

Early game caravans are a good way of earning money, but they were never meant to be a "safe" income, my caravan had a party of 120 and in the rare cases it had to run from a 300+ army it got 6.5 movement speed?

Even now after the caravan and workshop nerfs i am still making 20k each day with 200 tier 5-6 troops and 4 parties total, build your way up to the top, and you will remain there.



I hardly think you are in a position to say how they HAVE to work on their own game ? You know you bought into an EA game where at any time a patch can change something drastically, and yes they are bug fixing what they can during these patches aswell.

There is still much work to be done we all know that, but they first have to take one step to see if they can take another step forward or 2 steps back.
If you know everything so much better apply for an internship.

Having post on the forum the same day about an idea to nerf the caravan and actually doing it the same day is just bad. Has nothing to do with me thinking I'm knowing everyhing. I would love to work at a game company but I woudn't like living in Turkey at the moment.

Anyways every game company I've seen in my life right now plans these updates way ahead and makes ideas and doesn't just fix their problems with a quick nerf. If you would've actually read my post you would've known I bought an EA game and they working on an EA game would let me to believe they actually would fix the problems we encounter, and I have seen no complaint about the caravan until they started posting about it themselves. Now they got it patched with some nerf and didn't counter the problem at all.

I know something can change but just going about changing it the same day and they will fix it next week again is just stupid planning. You said I know everything but it seems you know it better with your EA blabla. excuses aren't a way to just nerf it quickly and don't think about it anymore it seems they have done that the last 5 years because alot of stuff that seemed apparent didn't get fixed when the game released in EA simple stuff like idk selling a fief to the player which I can just trade for free. If they wanna fix go ahead but at least PLAN.

 

[Macchab]

The two caravans I had were raided in 2-3 hours of playing with this patch. I created two new ones, and the second got raided before it even started to generate income. I'm ok with nerfing them but this needs balancing for sure, cause right now they are not a risky investment, they are a waste of money.

 

[SirOnyx]

It is not a bug.

If your caravans are 60-80 people they are 99% safe again. We cannot get what we want (high risk-high profit). They are making you 0.5-1K profit each day. Their initial cost is 18K. Even if one year they survive you already make good profit. Caravans cannot be your only or main income source for years.

There are several income sources at game and you do not have to follow only one :
-castles / towns : 20% of prosperity as tax
-villages : 50% of profit from sold items are taken as tax
-workshops (everybody were runinng same 1-2 workshops, this is why pottery shop is nerfed, pottery shop was creating 2 potteries from 1 clay and this is way more profitable compared to other conversations thats why it is nerfed)
-caravans : they are making trade and you get 20% of their money when their capital passes 10K.
-battles : you get loot from enemy deaths, you get woundeds as prisoner
-tournaments

When you watch gameplays lots of people were feeding their armies with 1-2 caravans however caravans are only one small game element they should not be your main money source. If you feel they are useless or if you are in a risk group (if you have lots of enemies currently or bandits are overpopulated) you do not have to form a caravan. If you want more money sources you should try to get more fortifications you should increase your relation with other clans (I accept which is hard currently - there are less ways to get relation (will increase by time), one way is voting for them in elections by spending influence)

If you execute every lord you caught bandits are overpopulated in long term play. So your caravans are in more risk ofc. What you did in past have an effect in future. In future there can be new perks for giving your caravans +10 party size maybe but more than this is OP.

Caravans are good at early and mid game however in late game you should find other sources.

Q : Why forming a caravan costs 18K ?
A : You are giving 10K as initial money to caravan. They are buying their first trade goods with this money and all trade is initiated from this 10K. 8K is cost of 30 men you get. These troops are level 16/21/26 troops. They should be at least 250 denars per each one.

By the way Stewardship skill level of companion can give extra party size to caravans too in future however this will be so low compared to their normal effect when they form clan party. Trade skill is most important skill you should consider while selecting a leader to your caravan. (I accept there are less companions with good trade skill, however I am not dealing with this part)

Q : Why player cannot give trade routes?
A : It can be added in future. After major problems are solved.

First I'll just say that I appreciate your thorough response and I can definitely see some reasoning in your points.

Now, when it come to actual gameplay, since downloading the new patch my 3 caravans have all been destroyed within 15 minutes of playing...
2 were killed by Looters, and 1 by an enemy Lord.

I currently play as a Vlandian hybrid Merchant/Mercenary, where we trade during peace and we go to war when necessary.
I rely on my workshops and caravans to provide for my party during peace time.

As stated before, all of my caravans were totally destroyed 15 minutes into the new patch! Clearly this is not a risk I'm taking but rather I'm throwing my gold away...

I can clearly understand the importance of balancing OP mechanics but please be a bit more considerate and think your steps through.