Vlandian Sharpshoorter has his pavise shield. Could he use it as a shield in front of himself?

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I'd say the video from Terco_Viejo is pretty overwhelming evidence.



Shields on back should work.

Is it...proves youre not having knowledge about the game....12 damage taken to you without a shield on your back to on highest difficulty settings ? dream on. I might be wrong but ive seen my damage output along with sound hitting an soldier in the back with an shield of which i was referring to...and i know what an miss hit is to add if you havent read it.... But Terco might have it on lowest settings idk yet about that but still ive seen it. I want better proof and solid one to, no mods because im curious if im wrong or right now in 1.5.4. Does the shield block a little from incomming slash and also does it block little of the damage of an arrows/bolt is the biggest question as i have no clue, but it looked like it from his video. but i have no problem being wrong in this matter, if im wrong im wrong. Most important for me is to know what reduced the damage when i hit them on the shield at their backs
 
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Lol.. this is gold. Clearly it is not working, for being such a M&B veteran I'm disappointed. BTW I do like your vegabond character build and watched one of your videos.
 
Lol.. this is gold. Clearly it is not working, for being such a M&B veteran I'm disappointed. BTW I do like your vegabond character build and watched one of your videos.
Yes and its up to you to prove this to us by showing us the code and proving with that its from 1.5.4 or else im calling you a troll from now on since you called me a liar even if i said im not 100% about it ^^ This is a matter of principles now and keeping your face because im rdy to loose mine even if i wasnt arguing against it like you did...anyways no hard feeling pal, were knights are we not ? :wink: also happy you enjoyed em. Ps also take your time since its no rush, i know that irl and work comes first
 
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Video test was made in custom battle scenario. If you compare the damages suffered in the same warband scenario (Custom battle), in this one the damages are much lower in comparison.
 
Yes and its up to you to prove this to us by showing us the code and proving with that its from 1.5.4

You're wrong with that. You are the only one here that is the self claimed expert, who knows so much more about the game mechanics than anyone else, that he doesn't need to prove something. Of course, everyone who doesn't agree with you is either lying or a troll.

Here's the snippet from the damage calculation by the way. With the perk you have a chance to negate damage else the normal calculation starts and as far I can see, you just get a small armor bonus down the road... I can't be bothered to post all of it here. If you don't believe it dig for yourself.

C#:
        public override int CalculateDamage(ref AttackInformation attackInformation, ref AttackCollisionData collisionData, in MissionWeapon weapon)
        {
            CharacterObject characterObject = attackInformation.AttackerAgentCharacter as CharacterObject;
            IAgentOriginBase attackerAgentOrigin = attackInformation.AttackerAgentOrigin;
            Formation attackerFormation = attackInformation.AttackerFormation;
            CharacterObject characterObject2 = attackInformation.VictimAgentCharacter as CharacterObject;
            CharacterObject characterObject3 = attackInformation.AttackerCaptainCharacter as CharacterObject;
            CharacterObject characterObject4 = attackInformation.VictimCaptainCharacter as CharacterObject;
            WeaponComponentData currentUsageItem = attackInformation.VictimMainHandWeapon.CurrentUsageItem;
            int result = 0;
            MissionWeapon missionWeapon = weapon;
            WeaponComponentData currentUsageItem2 = missionWeapon.CurrentUsageItem;
            bool flag = false;
            if (currentUsageItem2 != null && currentUsageItem2.IsConsumable && collisionData.CollidedWithShieldOnBack && characterObject2 != null && characterObject2.GetPerkValue(DefaultPerks.Crossbow.Pavise))
            {
                float num = MBMath.ClampFloat(DefaultPerks.Crossbow.Pavise.PrimaryBonus / 100f, 0f, 1f);
                flag = (MBRandom.RandomFloat <= num);
            }
            if (!flag)
            {
                ExplainedNumber explainedNumber = new ExplainedNumber((float)collisionData.InflictedDamage, null);
                if (characterObject != null)
                {
                    if (currentUsageItem2 != null)
 
Video test was made in custom battle scenario. If you compare the damages suffered in the same warband scenario (Custom battle), in this one the damages are much lower in comparison.
Good to know :smile: and as i said didnt knew what type of damage type i was looking at. So you got 12 in damage without the shield to with same armor hitting the center mass ?` Try Manivilion guys...think they have samish armor have they not ?

You're wrong with that. You are the only one here that is the self claimed expert, who knows so much more about the game mechanics than anyone else, that he doesn't need to prove something. Of course, everyone who doesn't agree with you is either lying or a troll.

Here's the snippet from the damage calculation by the way. With the perk you have a chance to negate damage else the normal calculation starts and as far I can see, you just get a small armor bonus down the road... I can't be bothered to post all of it here. If you don't believe it dig for yourself.

C#:
        public override int CalculateDamage(ref AttackInformation attackInformation, ref AttackCollisionData collisionData, in MissionWeapon weapon)
        {
            CharacterObject characterObject = attackInformation.AttackerAgentCharacter as CharacterObject;
            IAgentOriginBase attackerAgentOrigin = attackInformation.AttackerAgentOrigin;
            Formation attackerFormation = attackInformation.AttackerFormation;
            CharacterObject characterObject2 = attackInformation.VictimAgentCharacter as CharacterObject;
            CharacterObject characterObject3 = attackInformation.AttackerCaptainCharacter as CharacterObject;
            CharacterObject characterObject4 = attackInformation.VictimCaptainCharacter as CharacterObject;
            WeaponComponentData currentUsageItem = attackInformation.VictimMainHandWeapon.CurrentUsageItem;
            int result = 0;
            MissionWeapon missionWeapon = weapon;
            WeaponComponentData currentUsageItem2 = missionWeapon.CurrentUsageItem;
            bool flag = false;
            if (currentUsageItem2 != null && currentUsageItem2.IsConsumable && collisionData.CollidedWithShieldOnBack && characterObject2 != null && characterObject2.GetPerkValue(DefaultPerks.Crossbow.Pavise))
            {
                float num = MBMath.ClampFloat(DefaultPerks.Crossbow.Pavise.PrimaryBonus / 100f, 0f, 1f);
                flag = (MBRandom.RandomFloat <= num);
            }
            if (!flag)
            {
                ExplainedNumber explainedNumber = new ExplainedNumber((float)collisionData.InflictedDamage, null);
                if (characterObject != null)
                {
                    if (currentUsageItem2 != null)

Who was claiming anything here ?! Read the thread again if youre making these accusations just out of jumping in to an conversation with conclusions of something youre not knowing whats it is really about. Now youre just being rude and defending something that you dont know anything about. So if i got it right here thinking language that im very rusty at.... this is about the perk language right ? and not the hardcode of the game combat mechanic ? Please correct me if im wrong...i read it fast and was back in year 2000 i programmed in pascal last time ^^ Also how can i see here its from 1.5.4?... which is fair though because the perk got implemented in that patch right ?


Lol here atleast we got someone with humor and good show ^^
 
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Of course, you always admit that you maybe be wrong. But if they don't provide proof they are trolls, lying or don't know what they are talking about. You just can't be bothered to check it yourself:

Dissabled!? then i must heard things wrong and seen things...dont think so...Are you sure you have seen the code right and know how to read one ? Sure you have even looked at the right code im talking about ? Please post it so i can have a look which one it is so i know im wrong and it should be from 1-5-4. Im a bit rusty at the language though so i might have to call a friend ^^

Yes and its up to you to prove this to us by showing us the code and proving with that its from 1.5.4 or else im calling you a troll from now on since you called me a liar

Is it...proves youre not having knowledge about the game...

Still waiting for your proof......or else im calling your lack of experience out and accept that...its no problem we all do that...Or else youre just trolling ? I want to know because its important for me knowing the mechanics of the game what im experience or not. this forum is getting alot of missinformations out so its good we make things clear and its allright if we do mistakes or missunderstands as long as we admit em as i will do if i was wrong

Nothing more to add.
 
Of course, you always admit that you maybe be wrong. But if they don't provide proof they are trolls, lying or don't know what they are talking about. You just can't be bothered to check it yourself:









Nothing more to add.
Ah so youre angling it to, got it ^^ since this wasnt from the beginning with his comments in it as he angled me as...as we where...next....

Im waiting on Tercos analysis though (if so) with exitement since im curious and can respect his input (because in Terco we trust) if it was wrong from the beginning..:even if i made no claims what so ever that it slightly protected against arrows. If you can please do it with weapons to since im also curioius on that, what made me do lesser damage that is, along with the sounds
 
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Ah so youre angling it to, got it ^^ since this wasnt from the beginning with his comments in it as he angled me as...as we where...next....

I would say you are forcing the victim position on yourself, when you're not getting your opinion approved and start to throw accusations. But whatever...

I respect you for contributing and trying to improve the game, but your oversensitive reaction to opposing opinions just drives me nuts. Not everyone here is your enemy or trying to trick you. But we shouldn't derail the thread any further.

Fact is: If you don't have the pavise crossbow perk, a shield on the back does almost nothing. That leaves us with the op's problem as turning the back to the enemy while reloading won't help. Either there should be a mechanic to deploy the shield or turning the back should make a difference. For that the skill requirement of the pavise perk must be lowered.
 
I would say you are forcing the victim position on yourself, when you're not getting your opinion approved and start to throw accusations. But whatever...

I respect you for contributing and trying to improve the game, but your oversensitive reaction to opposing opinions just drives me nuts. Not everyone here is your enemy or trying to trick you. But we shouldn't derail the thread any further.

Fact is: If you don't have the pavise crossbow perk, a shield on the back does almost nothing. That leaves us with the op's problem as turning the back to the enemy while reloading won't help. Either there should be a mechanic to deploy the shield or turning the back should make a difference. For that the skill requirement of the pavise perk must be lowered.
Nah nah dont you try to twist this one...He was calling me out first without me even saying it was true and not even proving something with his words ,just playing monkey trying to discredit me....So you can say whatever you want mr ^^ And you saying it does almost nothing ? what you mean by that ? Now you got me curious. And you havent awnsered me if i was right with the language...i know im amature at it like 2 years in school and it was like 20 years ago but would appreciate you explaining to me if i was wrong and perhaps teach me something in there

Can understand that you might seen it wrong and got your feelings mixed in as an defensive mechanism how you looked at it in the moment, its ok <3
 
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Or do we have two trolls in one hit ? :wink: jk im not really thinking you are (maybe) but just a little bit taking it personal types and one having a slight bully syndrome, but i think its reaction to save face which is alright. My sister is the same.
Could be the same person for all i know to ^^ but hey its the internet right and i dont want to call my buddies "inside the intelligence center" just for the sake of an petty forum squabble xD
 
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Well as you can see in the last snippet there is a flat chance to negate all damage if you have the pavise perk (which is 75% at the moment).

If you miss this roll the damage calculation continues and the only direct effect of a shield on the back I'm seeing is a small increase in armor effectiveness:
C#:
            if (collidedWithShieldOnBack && shieldOnBack != null)
            {
                num += 10f;
            }
            float absorbedDamageRatio = victimAgentAbsorbedDamageRatio;
            float num2 = Game.Current.BasicModels.StrikeMagnitudeModel.ComputeRawDamage(damageType, magnitude, num, absorbedDamageRatio);
            float num3 = 1f;
            if (!attackBlockedWithShield && !isFallDamage)
            {
                num3 *= damageMultiplierOfBone;
                num3 *= combatDifficultyMultiplier;
            }
            num2 *= num3;
            inflictedDamage = MBMath.ClampInt((int)num2, 0, 2000);
            int num4 = MBMath.ClampInt((int)(Game.Current.BasicModels.StrikeMagnitudeModel.ComputeRawDamage(damageType, magnitude, 0f, absorbedDamageRatio) * num3), 0, 2000);
            absorbedByArmor = num4 - inflictedDamage;

So it simply reduces some damage depending on damage type:

C#:
public static float ComputeRawDamageNew(DamageTypes damageType, float magnitude, float armorEffectiveness, float absorbedDamageRatio)
        {
            float num = 0f;
            float bluntDamageFactorByDamageType = CombatStatCalculator.GetBluntDamageFactorByDamageType(damageType);
            float num2 = magnitude * bluntDamageFactorByDamageType;
            float num3 = 100f / (100f + armorEffectiveness);
            num += num2 * num3;
            if (damageType != DamageTypes.Blunt)
            {
                float num4;
                if (damageType != DamageTypes.Cut)
                {
                    if (damageType != DamageTypes.Pierce)
                    {
                        return 0f;
                    }
                    num4 = Math.Max(0f, magnitude * num3 - armorEffectiveness * 0.33f);
                }
                else
                {
                    num4 = Math.Max(0f, magnitude * num3 - armorEffectiveness * 0.5f);
                }
                num += num4 * (1f - bluntDamageFactorByDamageType);
            }
            return num * absorbedDamageRatio;
        }
 
Well as you can see in the last snippet there is a flat chance to negate all damage if you have the pavise perk (which is 75% at the moment).

If you miss this roll the damage calculation continues and the only direct effect of a shield on the back I'm seeing is a small increase in armor effectiveness:
C#:
            if (collidedWithShieldOnBack && shieldOnBack != null)
            {
                num += 10f;
            }
            float absorbedDamageRatio = victimAgentAbsorbedDamageRatio;
            float num2 = Game.Current.BasicModels.StrikeMagnitudeModel.ComputeRawDamage(damageType, magnitude, num, absorbedDamageRatio);
            float num3 = 1f;
            if (!attackBlockedWithShield && !isFallDamage)
            {
                num3 *= damageMultiplierOfBone;
                num3 *= combatDifficultyMultiplier;
            }
            num2 *= num3;
            inflictedDamage = MBMath.ClampInt((int)num2, 0, 2000);
            int num4 = MBMath.ClampInt((int)(Game.Current.BasicModels.StrikeMagnitudeModel.ComputeRawDamage(damageType, magnitude, 0f, absorbedDamageRatio) * num3), 0, 2000);
            absorbedByArmor = num4 - inflictedDamage;
C#:
public static float ComputeRawDamageNew(DamageTypes damageType, float magnitude, float armorEffectiveness, float absorbedDamageRatio)
        {
            float num = 0f;
            float bluntDamageFactorByDamageType = CombatStatCalculator.GetBluntDamageFactorByDamageType(damageType);
            float num2 = magnitude * bluntDamageFactorByDamageType;
            float num3 = 100f / (100f + armorEffectiveness);
            num += num2 * num3;
            if (damageType != DamageTypes.Blunt)
            {
                float num4;
                if (damageType != DamageTypes.Cut)
                {
                    if (damageType != DamageTypes.Pierce)
                    {
                        return 0f;
                    }
                    num4 = Math.Max(0f, magnitude * num3 - armorEffectiveness * 0.33f);
                }
                else
                {
                    num4 = Math.Max(0f, magnitude * num3 - armorEffectiveness * 0.5f);
                }
                num += num4 * (1f - bluntDamageFactorByDamageType);
            }
            return num * absorbedDamageRatio;
        }
So there is an small negate right ? If so then i wasnt seeing it wrong with my sword or miss calculated the hit with armor in mind which i also had in mind that it could have been even if it seemed more likely to be the shield along with the sound...But does this affect arrows to if so ? And yes ive seen some cav one hit Crossbowmen in the back but the sound was still there so might had an good roll or just good bonus to speed power
 
So there is an small negate right ? If so then i wasnt seeing it wrong with my sword or miss calculated the hit with armor in mind which i also had in mind that it could have been...But does this affect arrows to if so ?

As far as I can see it affects all weapons. Of course only lords, companions or the hero can get a high enough crossbow skill to use the pavise perk.

So all other units are always damaged and only get a small damage reduction.
 
As far as I can see it affects all weapons. Of course only lords, companions or the hero can get a high enough crossbow skill to use the pavise perk.

So all other units are always damaged and only get a small damage reduction.
Clearing things out and thnx for your honesty :smile: Now we can rest and yes they should higher the value so your crossbowmen can turn their backs to reload if they choose to implement it. However think the negate damage is about right though for the sake of balance even if it isnt realistic...Maybe higher it a little or full if people wants it... idk how it will affect but its gonna be risky for Cavs can tell yall that and perhaps make Vladian crossbowers little bit OP if set on full. But that can only the ones using mods tell since im not using them, mods that is...
 
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Well as you can see in the last snippet there is a flat chance to negate all damage if you have the pavise perk (which is 75% at the moment).

If you miss this roll the damage calculation continues and the only direct effect of a shield on the back I'm seeing is a small increase in armor effectiveness:
C#:
            if (collidedWithShieldOnBack && shieldOnBack != null)
            {
                num += 10f;
            }
            float absorbedDamageRatio = victimAgentAbsorbedDamageRatio;
            float num2 = Game.Current.BasicModels.StrikeMagnitudeModel.ComputeRawDamage(damageType, magnitude, num, absorbedDamageRatio);
            float num3 = 1f;
            if (!attackBlockedWithShield && !isFallDamage)
            {
                num3 *= damageMultiplierOfBone;
                num3 *= combatDifficultyMultiplier;
            }
            num2 *= num3;
            inflictedDamage = MBMath.ClampInt((int)num2, 0, 2000);
            int num4 = MBMath.ClampInt((int)(Game.Current.BasicModels.StrikeMagnitudeModel.ComputeRawDamage(damageType, magnitude, 0f, absorbedDamageRatio) * num3), 0, 2000);
            absorbedByArmor = num4 - inflictedDamage;

So it simply reduces some damage depending on damage type:

A minor increase in armor would be consistent with why this video is the way that it is.




That armor increase simply isn't going to do much.

I'm of the opinion that we should get Pavise to be the standard in game (ex: for all units, not just lords with this perk) are going to be shield resistant - maybe even increasing it from 75 to 90% and then adding a new good perk to replace it.
 
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