Hideout difficulty. A possible solution, both if you like or hate them. Detailed.

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andycott

Sergeant
💪
I suggest an option to choose hideout difficulty, so everyone will be happy, both who hate hideouts and who think that everything is fine.
One of the most important things is that these options won't change the balance of the game, because the number of bandits remains the same by default on every difficulty. But! The difficulty for sneaking in changes the number of troops you face here. If you think about it, everything is logical. You wait until night, sneak in not to fight the entire camp, but fight only the night guards and the bandit leader, who is the main goal, because without him bandits will be disorganized. So if the difficulty is lower than normal, you kill some guards and the leader, after that all remaining bandits are standing near the place, where this hideout was and can be destroyed too if you wish, or if they are in higher numbers, they can attack you, but already not in the hideout, but on the regular open field as usual.

So the Options - better in pause menu or in character creation screen, where you can choose hideout difficulty:
:twisted: Hard - more bandits in hideouts from the very start and you fight all of them as usual.
:cool: Normal - default bandit hideouts and you fight them all as usual.
:shifty: Easy - you fight capped/limited number of random bandits from hideout. F.e. maximum is 44 = 10-10-10-10-4. Not 37-1-1-4 or it will lose sense. If it can't be done, you fight 20 bandits.
:iamamoron: Very easy - you fight 10 random bandits (or maybe even a bandit leader right away).

Of course these difficulties can be different from what I suggested. The main idea is to be able to choose it.
Also this idea can be added to the ones above: when you catch them by surprise they will be less prepared and more vulnerable.
Good suggestion, for the point 2 i was thinking that another option could be giving them less equipment (like removing ranged weapons from some of them, armor from others, etc.) because you caught them offguard and they had no time to prepare for battle
So I think in this case all or some part of bandits will just appear before you in their civilian outfit with civilian weapons only. Seems to be a pretty easy option even if there are lots of them.

Everyone have different opinions on bandit hideouts.
Many think they should be nerfed, many think, everything is fine. So opinions can be roughly somewhere near 50/50 or so. So there should be an option for everyone. That's why I think hideouts should remain as they are and either there should be an option to make them easier or even harder.

UPD. A mod. Partly solves the problem and solves the problem completely for the ones, who wanted to bring as much troops as they wanted to hideout fights. Even the whole party.

A mod, which allows you to attack a hideout at a daytime. So no more waiting until night comes.

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UPD. Some of my other threads, which are not exactly connected with this topic, but can make this game better in one way or another:
Suggestion. Make training grounds the new main source of training, especially for recruits. Add recruiters and patrols in the game.
Suggestion. Building in towns and castles is way too fast and free. Maintenance.
Build your own fief with future upgrades. Detailed.
Capitals/all fiefs with unique buildings and additional opportunities.
Suggestions. Maths and Winter attrition for balance. Detailed explanation
Tools to balance food and prosperity. Detailed suggestions for food shortages.

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Additional information, which can be useful. Mainly about mods one way or another connected with the thread.
Don't know if all these are compatible. ☝ 👇

A mod "Scum and Villainy - The Underworld Rises (new faction and hideouts)", which doesn't solve this particular problem, but should make the whole bandit faction more fun. Which may at least make hideouts a little more interesting. Depends on future plans of the modder.

A mod. Also doesn't solve the problem, but is connected with the thread. Using it, you can send troops to a hideout without actually going there by yourself. For the ones, who doesn't like hideouts.
 
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heu3becteh

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I hate bandit hideout missions because they are ridiculous and unrealistic, not because they are hard.

You can stay with your 300-men army at hideout and enter it every night with half-dozen of your elite troops in shield wall formation until you slay them all.
It is just tedious and silly. Before it was completely ridiculous when you entered it with a bunch of recruits and did lose everything if you fail that mission, including 300-men elite army waiting outside and whatever. Now it is not as bad, but these missions are not fun at all anyway.

There needs to be an option to openly attack bandit hideout with your army.
If you want - you can still ambush them, if you find it amusing. It may make sense to ambush only bandit boss, if you have less troops than bandits to openly fight them.
But to just put yourself at disadvantage without reason, that spawn of a boss... It is all just too silly to be a part of such a good game.

I see it like that - you have two options if you enter bandit hideout:

1. Fight them openly with your army.
They will just fight you at their hideout with all their troops, including boss. All things reasonable.

2. Ambush them at night.
That could be interesting and fun solution if you will be able to sneak past the guards and challenge the boss to a duel. Or fight his troops like now when you fail stealth, but there should be no silly teleportation and boy-meets-boy situation cutscene like now...

That will make things interesting, you will want to spot the bandit hideout, you will search for it. That will use spotting mechanic a good way, will make it shine.
Now you just ignore these tedious, boring and unrewarding missions, unless it is the main quest.

P.S. Found topic on that topic:
 
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andycott

Sergeant
I hate bandit hideout missions because they are ridiculous and unrealistic, not because they are hard.

You can stay with your 300-men army at hideout and enter it every night with half-dozen of your elite troops in shield wall formation until you slay them all.
It is just tedious and silly. Before it was completely ridiculous when you entered it with a bunch of recruits and did lose everything if you fail that mission, including 300-men elite army waiting outside and whatever. Now it is not as bad, but these missions are not fun at all anyway.

There needs to be an option to openly attack bandit hideout with your army.
If you want - you can still ambush them, if you find it amusing. It may make sense to ambush only bandit boss, if you have less troops than bandits to openly fight them.
But to just put yourself at disadvantage without reason, that spawn of a boss... It is all just too silly to be a part of such a good game.

I see it like that - you have two options if you enter bandit hideout:

1. Fight them openly with your army.
They will just fight you at their hideout with all their troops, including boss. All things reasonable.

2. Ambush them at night.
That could be interesting and fun solution if you will be able to sneak past the guards and challenge the boss to a duel. Or fight his troops like now when you fail stealth, but there should be no silly teleportation and boy-meets-boy situation cutscene like now...

That will make things interesting, you will want to spot the bandit hideout, you will search for it. That will use spotting mechanic a good way, will make it shine.
Now you just ignore these tedious, boring and unrewarding missions, unless it is the main quest.

P.S. Found topic on that topic:
Good point. Good ideas in the topic below. More complex, which is good for the game if realized in the right way.

And my idea is to change it as soon as possible with a simple solution.
 
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andycott

Sergeant
With your solution I guess the most popular setting would be "Very Easy", because it is not as boring (:
This is the same as an overall difficulty, so I guess clearly "very easy" is not for everyone. That's why these certain options are needed, as other difficulty options.
 

andycott

Sergeant
Updated the thread with info about mods, which partly solves the problem or even solves the problem completely for the ones, who wanted to bring as much troops as they wanted to hideout fights. Even the whole party.
Also I updated the thread with other additional info, which can be useful. Also mainly about mods one way or another connected with the thread. If you're interested in such info, read everything else above.
 
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lysergicsid

Recruit
I hate bandit hideout missions because they are ridiculous and unrealistic, not because they are hard.

You can stay with your 300-men army at hideout and enter it every night with half-dozen of your elite troops in shield wall formation until you slay them all.
It is just tedious and silly. Before it was completely ridiculous when you entered it with a bunch of recruits and did lose everything if you fail that mission, including 300-men elite army waiting outside and whatever. Now it is not as bad, but these missions are not fun at all anyway.

There needs to be an option to openly attack bandit hideout with your army.
If you want - you can still ambush them, if you find it amusing. It may make sense to ambush only bandit boss, if you have less troops than bandits to openly fight them.
But to just put yourself at disadvantage without reason, that spawn of a boss... It is all just too silly to be a part of such a good game.

I see it like that - you have two options if you enter bandit hideout:

1. Fight them openly with your army.
They will just fight you at their hideout with all their troops, including boss. All things reasonable.

2. Ambush them at night.
That could be interesting and fun solution if you will be able to sneak past the guards and challenge the boss to a duel. Or fight his troops like now when you fail stealth, but there should be no silly teleportation and boy-meets-boy situation cutscene like now...

That will make things interesting, you will want to spot the bandit hideout, you will search for it. That will use spotting mechanic a good way, will make it shine.
Now you just ignore these tedious, boring and unrewarding missions, unless it is the main quest.

P.S. Found topic on that topic:
I agree with heu3becteh. Right now the problem isn't that they're too hard, they just don't give enough options and don't seem logical. Plus clearing them out can take forever sometimes.

I also think "silly teleportation" and "boy-meets-boy situation cutscene" are the best descriptions of the bandit boss fight I've heard so far.
 

Aposynth

Recruit
Imho you as commander just should have different options of approach:

1) Openly attack the hideout with your while party instantly. That makes you susceptible though that the bandits immediately disperse and, if you got the quest to deal with that hideout for good, it either should fail the quest or grant less/only standard money.
2) Prepare Ambush for the Night. That is what we have now, gives Standard money, maybe something like 50% of the bandits are not spawning since they're sleeping or the bandits react with a penalty to their own skills, since they're tired and stuff. Grants bandits a lesser chance than with 1) to escape through the night, but it fulfills the quest.
3) Surround the Hideout then attack: Takes longer, maybe should be tied to a skill requirement in tactics (not something very high, something like 50 or so), has the risk that bandits from the outside discover your troops (maybe influenced by scouting or tactics too?) and trigger basically the result of 1). However if it works, you attack the hideout from all sides, no bandit escapes, you'll get bonus money from the quest giver.
 

Kea Black

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
Imho you as commander just should have different options of approach:

1) Openly attack the hideout with your while party instantly. That makes you susceptible though that the bandits immediately disperse and, if you got the quest to deal with that hideout for good, it either should fail the quest or grant less/only standard money.
2) Prepare Ambush for the Night. That is what we have now, gives Standard money, maybe something like 50% of the bandits are not spawning since they're sleeping or the bandits react with a penalty to their own skills, since they're tired and stuff. Grants bandits a lesser chance than with 1) to escape through the night, but it fulfills the quest.
3) Surround the Hideout then attack: Takes longer, maybe should be tied to a skill requirement in tactics (not something very high, something like 50 or so), has the risk that bandits from the outside discover your troops (maybe influenced by scouting or tactics too?) and trigger basically the result of 1). However if it works, you attack the hideout from all sides, no bandit escapes, you'll get bonus money from the quest giver.

Good suggestion, for the point 2 i was thinking that another option could be giving them less equipment (like removing ranged weapons from some of them, armor from others, etc.) because you caught them offguard and they had no time to prepare for battle
 

andycott

Sergeant
Good suggestion, for the point 2 i was thinking that another option could be giving them less equipment (like removing ranged weapons from some of them, armor from others, etc.) because you caught them offguard and they had no time to prepare for battle
Good idea!
Even better in case they also have civilian outfit.
Don't think they have, but also don't really see a problem in adding them such an outfit.
Added it.👆

UPD. Plus I added this in the thread.
A mod, which allows you to attack a hideout at a daytime. So no more waiting until night comes.
 
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