Build your own fief with future upgrades. Detailed.

andycott

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There are several ways.
The whole idea is to be able to build your own fief from absolute Zero with wealth and resource investments of course - with more freedom. Or more simple with or without a quest to recover a once forgotten great place. In the second variant there will be just a scripted place, where you will begin building a fief - less freedom.
And it should of course take a lot of time to build anything complex.

There are two ways to realize both ideas. More detailed information below.
1. and 2. options at first to build something simple and than upgrade it to a town or even a huge metropolis.
It's more complex anyway - progression in building stages, may also add unique/regular buildings with unique/regular upgrades for them.
3. option - just to choose between building regular fiefs - a castle or a town with only regular upgrades. Without a possibility to change the type of a fief in future. The most simple one. Or to have an ability to build both one castle and one town.

1 option.
Building with stages.

You start from building a small temporary Camp for your party, which f.e. needs just wood and can only be one at a time. So it can be deconstructed any time and built again in a new place, but you still can keep some troops there, let's say 50 men. It will also help making new companion parties.

- The next stage. Now you can build already a permanent wooden Keep with wooden walls (wooden Castle), which can be stationed only in some exact places. So in perfect situation it should be scripted, not to be too close to other villages/castles/towns. Of course it should cost a lot of money and resources, not to be an easy task to do, but not so much time. Maybe it even can't be destroyed once built, so for a player to choose such a place wisely. If you decide to abandon it, it may even be occupied by bandits for more realism.
It can have its own different upgrades, including a possibility to choose its own production. So it's already a hybrid of a small wooden castle and a village.
Or maybe you can build houses a regular village or several villages connected to this place, while you upgrade it without hybrids. F.e. one or two villages for a castle, two or three villages for a town.
- The next stage. A stone Keep with wooden walls.
- The next stage. A regular Castle. A stone Keep with stone walls.
- The next stage. A Town.
With regular building upgrades and options. Or better with some unique upgrades of course as you build it from absolute Zero and may have your own priorities in different areas. F.e. you may need a future prosperous metropolis full of people and gold or a reliable fortress with high walls and a huge garrison, so nobody can conquer it.

2 option.
Or it can be even more simple, but with the same idea.

First stage is a regular Wooden Castle, which is already widely present in the game.
Second stage - a Stone Castle, also nothing new.
Final stage - a Town, the same.
All with regular upgrades for each. But with possibility to upgrade from wooden castle to a stone one and from stone castle to a town.
Better with new connected villages of course. Nothing new with them too.

3 option.
As stated above. A possibility to choose between building regular fiefs - a wooden/stone castle or a town with only regular upgrades. Without a possibility to change the type of a fief in future. Or to have an ability to build both one castle and one town.
Why you need a possibility to build castle instead of a town in this case, if you can't build both? Because it's far less expensive to do and you won't need as much time. Wooden castle is the cheapest, stone one is a little harder to build. Not much harder, because in this particular case it will only differ visually, with the same regular upgrades.
A town is the most expensive and it will take much more time to build, not only because of resources, but also because it will take more time for more people to come in this place in search of new opportunities or simply a place to live. It's also a simplified answer to a possible question - where do people come from? A lot of them are are the ones, who were building this fief. So once you've finished it won't be empty.

UPD. My other suggestions connected with this thread one way or another.
Suggestion. Building in towns and castles is way too fast and free. Maintenance.
Capitals/all fiefs with unique buildings and additional opportunities.

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UPD. My other suggestions connected with this thread one way or another.
Suggestion. Make training grounds the new main source of training, especially for recruits. Add recruiters and patrols in the game.
Tools to balance food and prosperity. Detailed suggestions for food shortages.
Hideout difficulty. A possible solution, both if you like or hate them. Detailed.
Suggestions. Maths and Winter attrition for balance. Detailed explanation

___________________________________

Additional information on mods, slightly connected with this thread.
Mod "Banditlord". It doesn't allow you to build anything new, but concerning this thread, f.e. there is a way to recruit Bandits directly from Hideouts and Towns. Mostly it concerns bandit faction and bandit troop tree. It doesn't allow you to build anything. Still maybe there is a way to use hideouts for this cause, at least as a static or even mobile camp.
 
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willholton1

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I believe they originally tried this idea out, but removed it because it became too complex.

They spoke about it in one of the dev blogs.
 

andycott

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I believe they originally tried this idea out, but removed it because it became too complex.

They spoke about it in one of the dev blogs.
I also remember this. So it's even better - they already have some mechanics for this.
And the fact that they couldn't or it was too complex to implement this in the game before doesn't mean they won't be able to do this in future. Some ideas always have a chance to inspire modders to do something similar too.
Also there are different ways to realize this, either complex and simple. Even adding something very simple but new into the game is already making it more interesting.
 

luisedgm

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There is some land to the left of the Aserai territory that is empty, would be nice to be able to fund a nation in there
 

Neodymus

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Maybe something for the late game if you are super rich or influencial. I mean there is a reason why not every lord was popping a new town or castle. It takes a huge amount of time, manpower, and money to built, they can be glad if they are not dead by then.
Also where do the people for a town come from? A village or really small town from struggler immigrants and unhappy farmers maybe, yea. But to develop a metropolis takes a few lifetimes of characters at least.
 

andycott

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Maybe something for the late game if you are super rich or influencial. I mean there is a reason why not every lord was popping a new town or castle. It takes a huge amount of time, manpower, and money to built, they can be glad if they are not dead by then.
Also where do the people for a town come from? A village or really small town from struggler immigrants and unhappy farmers maybe, yea. But to develop a metropolis takes a few lifetimes of characters at least.
Agree with you!
That's one of the reasons, why I wrote in the end of the thread about my other suggestion: Building in towns and castles is way too fast and free. And buildings should be maintained. It concerns building a new fief of course. :wink:
About people. As I wrote in the thread, one of the main reasons is "finding new opportunities or simply a place to live. A lot of them are the ones, who were building this fief.", there can be other reasons, as you said "A village or really small town from struggler immigrants and unhappy farmers" and many more. But it shouldn't be a fast process. Every place once started with few people. Also currently there is no such fief resource as people in the game. So a new fief can simply start with very low prosperity. And after that it progresses like any other.
 
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andycott

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There is some land to the left of the Aserai territory that is empty, would be nice to be able to fund a nation in there
Oh, it's not the only place. Even in the middle of the map there are some places, where it could have been possible to to build a fief. A little bit harder to connect a few villages with it, but it's also possible.
And in the corners/edge of the map there is more than enough of free space.
 

andycott

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They tried making it possible to build castles inside villages but ultimately gave up.
Their idea was more complex.
My suggestions are far more simple, except for the first option, but even there if you skip a possibility to create a mobile camp it becomes not that different from the second option.
In the 3 option nothing new needs to be added to the game mechanics, except for a possibility to create a new fief without a developer console. The 2 option needs a possibility to replace different kind of fiefs with other.
I'm not saying it's easy as a pie, but at least not too complex to be realized not only by devs, but also by modders.
 
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Mount On Blade

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The way TW has laid out the towns/castles/villages is that there are static routes for caravans and parties to take.
Introducing fiefs that the player can create would be problematic for pathfinding but if TW can sort that out then it would have to be like this:

Back in the ye olden times, medieval towns either changed into what are now major European cities or have since washed away entirely.
Aside from very early colonisation, there was no lord, king or emperor that suddenly had the idea to create a new town or random village.
However, castle construction was indeed a thing and although it happened, it took a load of resources and in some cases nearly bankrupt kingdoms (just to construct one). The undertaking of which would take several years, 10 if you're lucky, 25+ if you're not.

The way these worked in medieval Europe is that some of the time but not all of the time, castles would house a considerable garrison and bed of resources, which would attract merchants and traders, which would attract villagers and serfs. Depending on the location, some of these castles would just stay as they are with a few huts in the surrounding area, some would sprout villages outside of the castle walls and some would be a bad enough investment that over time no lord or king would see them to be at all useful and just let them crumble into disrepair.

With that little history lesson established, don't expect TW to implement this at all.
 

andycott

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The way TW has laid out the towns/castles/villages is that there are static routes for caravans and parties to take.
Introducing fiefs that the player can create would be problematic for pathfinding but if TW can sort that out then it would have to be like this:

Back in the ye olden times, medieval towns either changed into what are now major European cities or have since washed away entirely.
Aside from very early colonisation, there was no lord, king or emperor that suddenly had the idea to create a new town or random village.
However, castle construction was indeed a thing and although it happened, it took a load of resources and in some cases nearly bankrupt kingdoms (just to construct one). The undertaking of which would take several years, 10 if you're lucky, 25+ if you're not.

The way these worked in medieval Europe is that some of the time but not all of the time, castles would house a considerable garrison and bed of resources, which would attract merchants and traders, which would attract villagers and serfs. Depending on the location, some of these castles would just stay as they are with a few huts in the surrounding area, some would sprout villages outside of the castle walls and some would be a bad enough investment that over time no lord or king would see them to be at all useful and just let them crumble into disrepair.

With that little history lesson established, don't expect TW to implement this at all.
I don't expect anything. It's a suggestion.
You're maybe right about TW not implementing it or maybe not.

Also you're maybe wrong with how much time it was needed. Of course different castles needed different time, but from what I know it took 2 to 10 years. And if it is a wooden castle, you can imagine it needs considerably less time. Also everything depends on how much money you can spend to build one. Best engineers, more workers, etc.
I'm adding this link only as an example I'm not thinking this information up.
Also when you look at Bannerlord castles and towns you can see how simple they are. So if you need to build exactly the same construction, it shouldn't take the longest possible period. Towns here aren't that different from castles - not too complex, just bigger. Of course they will need more time to be built, but not even close to 25+ years like you stated.

Also it's a game. Though I think the more realistic the game, the better, it still remains a game.
And talking about realism, right now it takes ridiculous little time to build anything in towns and castles. So if everything remains the same, which I think should be changed, the time to build a fief will also be even less than 2-10 years, especially a wooden one.

In the end of this thread you can also find this: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...-is-way-too-fast-and-free-maintenance.413447/ "Building in towns and castles is way too fast and free. Maintenance."
 
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Mount On Blade

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Also you're maybe wrong with how much time it was needed. Of course different castles needed different time, but from what I know it took 2 to 10 years.


Sorry kiddo but typing "How long does it take to build a castle" into Google and reading the first thing that comes up is a pretty bad idea.
If you've done any research you know there are several steps to building a castle, several different types of "castle" and most of the medieval architecture we see today is from centuries of refinement.

Sure it can take two years to build a motte-and-bailey, which is just raised dirt and a wooden keep, by the way.
But there is no exact historical record or medium to base 'actual' castle construction time off of.
So you can either trawl through some threads or have a look at some examples I've easily pulled from wikipedia



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guédelon_Castle - 23 years for a modern construction of a 13th century castle and it still isn't done


Quora answer from someone who knows more than you do https://www.quora.com/How-long-did-it-usually-take-to-build-a-castle


You get the point.
 

andycott

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Sorry kiddo but typing "How long does it take to build a castle" into Google and reading the first thing that comes up is a pretty bad idea.
If you've done any research you know there are several steps to building a castle, several different types of "castle" and most of the medieval architecture we see today is from centuries of refinement.

Sure it can take two years to build a motte-and-bailey, which is just raised dirt and a wooden keep, by the way.
But there is no exact historical record or medium to base 'actual' castle construction time off of.
So you can either trawl through some threads or have a look at some examples I've easily pulled from wikipedia



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guédelon_Castle - 23 years for a modern construction of a 13th century castle and it still isn't done


Quora answer from someone who knows more than you do https://www.quora.com/How-long-did-it-usually-take-to-build-a-castle


You get the point.
Let's begin with I'm greatful for you contribution to my thread and also that neither me or you know anything about castles, more than we can find in internet, so there is little sense in discussing who may be right or wrong. Don't have an idea, why you started this in the first place. I never said, I'm an expert in castle building or anything like this. I said "I'm adding this link only as an example I'm not thinking this information up" and "you're maybe wrong". Please, read my first answer to you with more precise before complaining. Maybe there are other details you missed. But it also seems that you try to look like an expert by googling the topic just like me and giving me links to wikipedia and quora. The source I presented from the very start is nothing worse than any other. People often fill wikipedia with information from such sources as well.

If these or some similar mechanics were implemented by TW or modders, I don't think that it would take decades to build a fief as it is too long for a player to wait, but hope it would both be realized as realistic as it could be and make gameplay possibilities only better.

Any way, this discussion concerns the topic only partly. But of course more attention to this thread is always welcome, my little troll friend.
 
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CharlieMRCR

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Even if they didn't add castle building, adding a feature to create a "stronghold" to act as a base of operations like in Viking Conquest would be phenomenal. It's basically an empowered camp where you can garrison troops and items, and it remains there when you leave.