SP - General Disciplinarian perk too late?

[MakinTorf]

the perk is good where it is.

a) if you play on full realistic, you have always losses in battles and only 1 recruit slot in each line. that makes it hard in late game by heavy losses to get your full size back

b) noble troops are so rare and they are much to powerfull, they should stand as a "wow" moment in game. you never will get a full noble army on realistic mode.

c) when you clear bandit hideouts you get +relation for the nearby towns, to unlock the other recruitment slots and then you always get some bandit prisoners what the perk, again, makes much to powerfull

btw. you get xp in leadership just by recruiting! if you didnt know that.

 

[EternalHeathen]

If features are going to be locked behind perks(which I dont agree with) then I think its fine where it is. Generally, late game when you would unlock this, you aren't hunting bandits much. Enemy lords whive just magically respawned, still do. So hunt a lord with some bandit prisoners, hire them directly, then convert them on their next level.

 

[MakinTorf]

i would always make the hideouts in realistic mode. thats good for relation and good for the recruiting slots

like i said. the noble troops, what you get by recruiting bandits, are to powerfull just to have them in the early mid game. they should stand in the "wow" and "yes" moment. thats why i dont like the idea to get the bandit recruitement so early.

maybe 125 is to high, 100 will also be hard to hit or you just make research how to get fast leadership up.
yes its a grinding game but thats all action rpg games also and i like that. if you want to play on very easy you maybe just play casual and you have the recruitment slots to get very fast nobles if you want that but if you play on realistic it is still very cool imo that you get the nobles very rare and very hard.

its about balancing.

 

[Mullahadin]

Wholehearty disagree. While, true, it does come pretty late where you could say your focus should be elsewhere by that time, but that's precisely the reason in my eyes. Bandit troops, while quite powerfull by themselves in their respective fields can get into T5/T6 WAY fatser than even regular noble lines. Forest bandits could be the best example - getting to Fians with only ONE lvl up (from Forest Bandit which is a plenty in bandit parties) is a huge benefit when your LATE GAME party suffers few losses in random skirmishes. Steppe Bandit Raider is even more "broken". By themself, they are really powerfull and NO WARHORSE needed for an upgrade to T5 noble Kheshig? C'mon. Without hard cap on Leadership perk, it would be literally pointless both village relation and economy wise to even bohter recruiting. Let's not also forget that, with big enough army backing you, smaller (1-15) bandit parties straight up offer to join you! As troops, not prisoners.

 

[TheShermanator]

I do agree that the ability is itself a little OP. (Thus the suggestion earlier in the thread of changing it so that you could convert looters,bandits,raiders, etc. only to regular troop types, not noble troop types). But it doesn't matter if it's OP if you never use it, and if you're too big/slow/busy to realistically be catching bandits by the mid game, then it's pointless to put it so late in the skill progression. The OP nature of spinning up easy high tier noble troops is really a separate problem from the placement of the perk in the skill progression at 125 vs. earlier (say 75 or 100).

 

[Apocal]

Steppe Bandit Raider is even more "broken". By themself, they are really powerfull and NO WARHORSE needed for an upgrade to T5 noble Kheshig? C'mon. Without hard cap on Leadership perk, it would be literally pointless both village relation and economy wise to even bohter recruiting. Let's not also forget that, with big enough army backing you, smaller (1-15) bandit parties straight up offer to join you! As troops, not prisoners.

Just FYI, the reason Steppe Raiders don't require a war horse to upgrade to Keshigs is because they already ride war horses as bandits and so do their noble line equivalents, Torguuds.

But as it the bit about village relation and economy being pointless, that isn't really true. If you make a point of developing relations with the influential landowners, by time the Disciplinarian perk is kicking in, you have such good relations you can consistently recruit T4 nobles straight from the villages. It is even easier than getting Steppe Raiders through capture-conversion or outright hiring. You just go and strip mine all the T4s, run a circuit of other villages producing noble recruits and repeat until you have enough of them.

I actually don't get that much use out of Disciplinarian in the late-game, except as a means of keeping replacements on-hand that don't count against my party size in the form of converted but not yet hired prisoners. And it is obviously preferable to top-up after sieges just using the basic T4 noble.

 

[Mama Luke]

I think that merging bandit troop trees to noble troop trees, even after a long leadership grind is a little bit OP.

1- Make bandit troop trees seperate from regular/noble soldier troop trees and make sure that bandit troops are weaker than their regular troop counterparts of the same tier.

2- With 1 impelemented, make Disciplinarian a Roguery Level 25 perk.

3- As a bonus, allow players to join bandit factions and recruit bandits from hideouts.

 

[ZavodilaSauklus]

I do not agree, this imba perk gives an unlimited number of fian (top archers) and banner knight (top cavalry). It was enough for me to lead an army 4 times with a total time of 3 weeks, 3 armies consisted only of vassals (I spent 0 influence, I spent influence only so that the army did not break up) I had 4 vassals of 100 and my army 200 and 1 times, I headed army for 1600. And in total for 3 weeks I have a skill of about 70, 125 is not bad. I didn’t even develop leadership in the beginning. Leave this perk untouched.

 

[Nerethi]

I think that merging bandit troop trees to noble troop trees, even after a long leadership grind is a little bit OP.

1- Make bandit troop trees seperate from regular/noble soldier troop trees and make sure that bandit troops are weaker than their regular troop counterparts of the same tier.

2- With 1 impelemented, make Disciplinarian a Roguery Level 25 perk.

3- As a bonus, allow players to join bandit factions and recruit bandits from hideouts.

+1 on this (espacially -3- ) !!
and maybe absorb bandit groups through dialogue with a presuasion exchange leading them to join, refuse, or attack in case of critical fail.


About disciplinarian, the high level requirement is coherent with the high quality of troop achievable through this ... but hell why those lowlive have such a high potential ?

Maybe having two tier of the perk, a lower one, rogish, that allows to upgrade bandits in regular common troops, and a higher one (the actual one) that unlock other branches for some units.
RP wise : in one case you try to get something out of the rabble, and in the second case you manage to benefit from the wild sprit of freedom and the harsh experience of life of some outlaws to cast them into something noble and shiny.