SP - General Reduce the XP required scaling so that skills max out at the hardest part of the game.

[10tributedaily]

The game has a lot of powerful, game changing perks that scale off level. One of them, for example, is the final Medicine perk.
When you're getting stacked with war declarations, you might have around 200 Medicine.
When you have the biggest kingdom around and no real enemies, you'll finally have 275 Medicine.
When you're sieging down the last kingdom's castle, you'll be lucky to have 330 Medicine.

It makes no sense to have your power spike right around the time there's nothing left to use it on.
Reduce the XP required scaling so that skills max out at the hardest part of the game, or increase the skill gain on common activities.

Test out every single skill so that someone playing normally can reach 330 (as soon as they go all in with FP and attributes) by the time they start a kingdom.
Some skills, like Roguery, are impossible to max out without doing some immersion breaking cheese. Selling prisoners is a pretty normal way of leveling Roguery. You'd have to sell 400 000 prisoners to reach 330 Roguery. Did someone think about how that makes sense?

 

[Zorion_no]

The game has a lot of powerful, game changing perks that scale off level. One of them, for example, is the final Medicine perk.
When you're getting stacked with war declarations, you might have around 200 Medicine.
When you have the biggest kingdom around and no real enemies, you'll finally have 275 Medicine.
When you're sieging down the last kingdom's castle, you'll be lucky to have 330 Medicine.

It makes no sense to have your power spike right around the time there's nothing left to use it on.
Reduce the XP required scaling so that skills max out at the hardest part of the game, or increase the skill gain on common activities.

Test out every single skill so that someone playing normally can reach 330 (as soon as they go all in with FP and attributes) by the time they start a kingdom.
Some skills, like Roguery, are impossible to max out without doing some immersion breaking cheese. Selling prisoners is a pretty normal way of leveling Roguery. You'd have to sell 400 000 prisoners to reach 330 Roguery. Did someone think about how that makes sense?

"Immersion breaking" like what do you refer to then?
I level my rogue skill by busting out lords from dungeons, that yields alot of that skill, and I do think it really falls in line with "rougery".


Dont get me wrong I do agree the xp to gain some skills is just awfully slow, while others may be abit fast.

Overall imo, if you do xyz, it should take 10 years tops to max it out just "doing things naturally".
And not have to genuinely grind it(trade anyone)(unless as you say cheeze it).(lots of videos on Youtube on how to level it up fast).

 

[Aegon-Targaryen]

I want to trade some castles and towns when persuading lords but I need a perk in the trade skill that’s too high to even bother with it

 

[Yoshioki Ouchi]

There's a whole lot of guesswork involved with what levels in Skills you might have by what points in the game. I tend to play it slower and more cautiously than most seem to, so I have maxed out or near maxed out several party skills (Steward, Medicine, and Scout) by the time I'm considering creating a new country and certainly by the late game. Combat skills level especially quickly. If Skills max out too quickly, it kills one of the incentives to play on if you're getting less out of it than you had before.

However, some skills, like Trade, could use a real buff to maxing them out since Trade in particular becomes a real hassle once you have money in the bank and selling trade goods is no longer a significant part of your income. As it is, I think having Workshop-produced goods (that you pick up from Warehouses) ought to contribute to you Trade XP by factoring the cost of production (raw resources + wages) against the (potentially exponential) price of sale since I have no doubt you'd hard cap Trade in no time if you could actually get Trade XP off of, say, Velvets for 600-1,000+ per unit, against the measly cost of manufacture (10 for Raw Silk and 100 per day for worker's wages in this case).

Lowering Everything Has a Price back down to 225 would be nice since the entire point of maxing out the skill is for this perk, specifically, and it's not OP unless you're also doing Smithing (which, despite the huge amounts of money you can make, also contributes nothing to Trade XP) but, then, Smithing is an OP outlier anyways. You'd have to play the game for IRL months to seriously buy out large swaths of land, never mind all Calradia, so it's more a novelty or an extra means of trading fiefs (or seizing a fief non-violently) rather than a viable gameplay strategy to take over the world.

 

[Totalgarbage]

I think that the learning rate should not go lower than 1x until you hit the skill cap if you have no focus points on that skill, and it should not go lower than 2.25x if you have all 5 focus points until you hit the cap (this learning rate minimum would therefore be increased by +0.25x for each focus point). OR, the required skill points to level up a skill don't go any higher after skill level 275 or maybe level 250 (so if you need 1M skill points to reach lvl 275 from 274, you would need 1M again to reach lvl 276 from 275, needing 1M exp all the way to lvl 330 for each skill increase).

Also, Trade and Tactics level up very slowly and honestly until you reach level 300, Trade just feels underwhelming most of the time.

 

[Zorion_no]

I think that the learning rate should not go lower than 1x until you hit the skill cap if you have no focus points on that skill, and it should not go lower than 2.25x if you have all 5 focus points until you hit the cap (this learning rate minimum would therefore be increased by +0.25x for each focus point). OR, the required skill points to level up a skill don't go any higher after skill level 275 or maybe level 250 (so if you need 1M skill points to reach lvl 275 from 274, you would need 1M again to reach lvl 276 from 275, needing 1M exp all the way to lvl 330 for each skill increase).

Also, Trade and Tactics level up very slowly and honestly until you reach level 300, Trade just feels underwhelming most of the time.

Trade dont really level as slow as many think though, its just a matter of what and or how you do profit, and or rather the mechanics they use isnt really "good" imo.

Supersimplified and hyperexaggerated Example : I pick up 1 silver sell it for profit of 200, gain 1 lvl of xp.(for simplicity say I gained 200 xp).
Had I however picked up grain, and sold 1000 units for 2 profit pr unit, I would gain 2000 denars, but only level up 20 xp..

Again this isnt actual numbers etc, but its a exaggerated way of explaining some items seems to lvl up trade "alot.


As the other sugggestion, have workshop give passive trade xp would be great.

I'd personally love abit more put into the workshops, like assign a clanmember to the workshop.
This could increase productivity(even if that is sadly in the game counterproductive.. d'oh) - lower wages.
Have as some mods have - quality, so if you have an assigned workshopmanager it would produce higher quality items, and thus more profit(Bannerkings have this system of quality(not the clanmember part that is my idea, prolly others have thought of it).

The brackets for leveling up the trade and specially in the latter part is just obnoxious unless you really cheese it hard, look up various guides for it.

I think this skill should improve much faster, than it currently do, seems really out of balance with the rest of the leveling skill.

When I dont focus on it, and just have other skills that I also dont focus on, but gain naturally..
I noticed that after 10 years, most of the other is very high or even maxed out but trade is down in the 125 even if I "trade relative often" and at profit, but not focused at all.

Tactics aswell is abit slower than it should be, even if you lead a huge siege or a big army it dont really feel "rewarding" atm.
Maybe besides the normal gain that we have, also get like +5 or +10 to the tactics skill as a bonus for winning a battle? maybe even as low as 2. I mean with +2 at 100 wins (note only vs lords and not vs bandits) you'd have 200 tactics from it.
I mean one would think that you'd be somewhat of a tactican if you came out on top of 100 battles?
I'm guessing this would perhaps be abit of a nitemare to program(then again I havent looked at the modding tools at all for this game).
But the skill could def get some tlc.

 

[Totalgarbage]

Trade isn't THAT bad honestly, I did trade character runs 2 times before (though both were years ago) and also, to my knowledge, workshops in 1.2 do give out trade experience but I haven't tested it, and I don't know if it gives the same exp rate as trading per profit (which was 2xp per each denar in trading profits when I tested it around 2 years ago, I don't know if its still the same rate). However, since trading doesn't yield that much profit, especially when compared to battling or smithing, it just feels grindy for little to no payoff.

The problems with trade are 2 fold imo: it really doesn't give you a comparable amount of money with battling or smithing (workshops are also ****) despite having much less operating costs compared to feeding and paying an warband/several warbands. Most perks in trading aren't that good for making money (exceptions being daily renown for each profitable workshop/caravan that eventually increases your limit on the number of caravans/workshops that you can own & spring of gold). And finally, something relevant to both points; trade penalty reduction gained from trade skill levels and perks don't really do much in increasing the profitability of trading compared to just playing a standard build where you fight (I'm not counting roguery which increases your income a LOT, especially after level 275).

Unrelated to Trade, another skill tree which I find underwhelming (yet paradoxically essential) is engineering (thankfully levelling it up is very fast). Levelling engineering skill (discounting perks) only speeds up your siege engine building speed by 0.1% per level. Yes, at the tippity top level of 330, you build siege engines 1.33 times faster, whoop-de-do. Oh also, this building speed doesn't apply to the speed at which you build a siege camp (unless they've changed in 1.2, but I don't remember reading so in any of the patch notes). The siege engine build speed increase should be something like 0.6% per level, which would mean that you would be building at roughly 3x the speed compared to a level 0 engineer, which would be increased even further, and also engineering should grant a siege camp speed increase of 0.3% per level. I also find most of the perks a bit meh, but the only one I would change is the ultimate perk, which should increase the engine damage by a lot more, should give increased HP to siege engines and increase the speed at which governors construct/upgrade buildings in settlements.

 

[drivegol]

Have to disagree tbh. Being able to level up and improve and seeing yourself become stronger is part of the fun, if you've already hit your peak character build by the time you've made a kingdom, then what was the point of leveling to begin with, might as well put cheats on.

There are certain skills that do level a bit too slowly for my taste, like trade, but what you're suggesting is counter intuitive of a leveling system in my opinion. If you really want to have fun with your skills for a little longer by the time you've conquered the map, you could just leave your kingdom and start over, and afaik your heirs usually start with more skill points and attribute points than your main character does anyway.

 

[10tributedaily]

Have to disagree tbh. Being able to level up and improve and seeing yourself become stronger is part of the fun, if you've already hit your peak character build by the time you've made a kingdom, then what was the point of leveling to begin with, might as well put cheats on.

There are certain skills that do level a bit too slowly for my taste, like trade, but what you're suggesting is counter intuitive of a leveling system in my opinion. If you really want to have fun with your skills for a little longer by the time you've conquered the map, you could just leave your kingdom and start over, and afaik your heirs usually start with more skill points and attribute points than your main character does anyway.

The peak of your character is for the peak of action. Unlike other RPGs, instead of the action going up with your character's strength, in M&B, there is a peak, and a boring downward slope for everything after that.
The way I see it, there are two solutions: Either change the structure of the game (e.g. add endgame challenges to maintain the action), or change the XP gain so that you reach your peak right as the action peaks.

Yes, I can just leave my kingdom. I could just disband my whole army and start as a hobo again so I can enjoy using my +100HP Sturgian space marines. But like leveling Tactics to max it out before the heat death of the universe, it just breaks immersion. A horde of foreign invaders (e.g. what the Khuzaits were running from) would be a better use of your maxed out character. If they won't add that, they should just make skills max out way earlier.