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So... How is Taleworlds getting away with this?
- Thread starter JustinTime49
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madnessario
Knight at Arms
WhyAmIHere
time to get the popcorn ready it seems
roffels11
You are right, I'm ignorant about the hype on an online forum, as to me only the official trailers and the product's description on Steam count, if I consider buying a game - not my personal "hopes and dreams" about a videogame. With this attitude every game will disappoint you.
What I am not ignorant about is the huge work that programing and animating and rigging is.
- Are you guys able to understand and write an XML file of your own? I'm not talking about copying one and changing a few entries (modding), I'm talking about understanding and creating a new one that works the way you intended it to work (programing). If yes, than do it better and faster than TaleWorlds without causing conflicting files ("bugs").
-Are you guys these awesome 3-D animators that are able to create and animate figures, several weaponparts, armour pieces visually working together as one armour but with interchangeble pieces and connecting them perfectly at the same time in a few days (the new Bannerlord engine "thinks" parts, not whole objects like Warband's engine did)? If yes, congratulations, then let us see how "fast" and "meaningful" your updates are. I am not talking about using a skeleton and a mesh from Bannerlord and changing some details or "only" retexturing it (modding), I'm talking about creating these things, which is what developers do.
If the answer is no, to any of these aspects I mentioned, you should tone down a bit or uninstall and refund the game if you are that angry and bitter. In both cases, you claim(ed) understanding and empathy but never showed any understanding and empathy youselves.
And I do not recommend calling strangers ignorant, because you don't know what knowledge or skill they have and what they have not. If me knowing a bit about gaming developement and judging what I buy or don't buy on current official advertising instead of old, not updated blog entries and forum entries some stranger wrote about a videogame is ignorance, than ignorance is bliss.
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What are your top 10 favorite things about Bannerlord?
He got muted for posting a link to porn lol.
Nah man. You should do it and throw your credentials on top of it. Claim to be a veteran game developer with 50 years experience and two master degrees in software related majors. It's going to be fine because there are no other developers on the Internet to prove you wrong.
roffels11
0 Death: finally something is at stake during a battle and enemy lords are not immortal anymore. You, your friends, your family and your enemies can die in battle, because... well... war is no game, but deadly.
Executing enemy lords is a nice option, but taking them prisoner and letting them go after their families paid a randsom is more socially acceptable, which is accurate. Lords and ladies were sometimes executed in the middle ages, but it was seen as an act of cruelty not worth of a noble.1 The first thing is the new artstyle and time period/"historical setting": Late antiquity and early middleages are a fascinating time but no other videogame I know about, except for some point-and-click strategy games, uses this setting. The idea that there is late scotto-picto celts (Battania) fighting the Byzantine Empire (Calradian Empire) as well as frankish riders (Vlandia) which are at conflict with nord-west slaves/nothern europeans (Sturgia) and turkish/mongol/slavic riders (Khuzait are a mixture of many asian and southern cultures) is not that far from the actual historical conflicts between 400 and 1000 A.D..
2 The animations during combat: in Bannerlord, if you time it right, you can chain attacks to create a smooth animation-flow. Of course the player can use the simple directional animations by just smashing the mouse button and ignoring timing, yet having these animations is nice, in my opinion.
3 directional shield blocking: seems small but it takes skill to program and animate a big 3 D (shield) item stuck on an other 3 D item (the player character) both moving but rarely, or ideally never, clipping/interfering which triggers the correct soundeffect when hit by a third 3 D object (weapon). Plus it takes "player skill" to master properly or you simply choose the auto-block which still requires timing. Even Kingdom Come Deliverance could not pull this off but used the "simpler" method of timing based shields/blocking.
4 Shieldbashes/dirty fighting: The DLC Viking Conquest had this in a rudimentary form, but Bannerlord did this on a new scale. Every weapon and all shields have a bash/surprise attack animation if you press the "interaction button". Seems not worth mentioning to the player, but it is complex to program and animate.
5 influence: Gaining influence points that you can exchange for money or spend on several actions in the Kingdom menu is a simple yet very effective way to "keep the game rewarding" after you got the renown you need for the position you want. In Warband the renown system was the most interesting social feature, in Bannerlord the mix of renown and influence creates two important factors that determine your status and range of action.
6 kingdom menu/"diplomacy"/politics: There were some mods that tried to add more political aspects to Warband, but they never really caught me. In Bannerlord the influence system interacting with decisions in your kingdom or being exchanged for enacting/cancelling active policies is fun. It is simple but adds enough roleplaying potential: you/your realm can be a sacred god emperor, a feudal state, a pseudo-republic or a military dictatorship focused on war for war's sake thanks to this system of adding and taking away policies. I'm already happy with what I got, as it is more than the diplomacy mod in Warband had to offer, but the more the better!
7 Marriage is more than a cosmetic detail: in Warband marrying gave you a realtionship boost and the option to start feasts of your own. That's nice, but more cosmetic and immersive than useful. Relationship could be gained by questing and letting Lords go freely after a battle, so it was an addition but not essential. In Bannerlord the entire clan system is based on marriage and the parents character traits determine their children's character.
8 The clan system and heritage: Every person lives and dies in Bannerlord, not just your soldiers. "Immortality" is gained by establishing your clan and having children. Your children or other relatives, if you die childless, will be your heirs. Without heirs, your possessions will be divided and shared throughout the realm. That's a nice approach to medieval nobility's culture. Oh, and creating independent AI parties and caravans is a fun little detail which helps to increase your kingdom's military strength and economy. They are a nice way to level up companions and family members passively.
9 armies: it is part of the kingdom menu, but I count this system seperately because the impact is outside of said menu and it has not much to do with roleplaying. It is the strategic core element, besides your own small party of course. Armies assemble, armies march together under a leader and they disperse because they cannot maintain their cohesion. The more influential the leader summoning the army is, the better it grows. The more independent parties are part of your kingdom the more could join your army. This is a adequate simulation of medieval warfare. Warband's system had no armies, but the role of marshal who could ask other lords to aid him. This was not bad, but Bannerlord's army-system is more accurate and just appeals to me more.
10 shortcuts, optinal content and interface/HUD: you can do everything through menues and the "talk"-shortcut button. The player can walk around settlements, enjoy the surroundings, the atmosphere, the small cultural details and walk physically to the notables or lords, but he does not have to. This saves time, frustration and helps avoiding loading screens on weak hardware/older computers.
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I stand corrected!
Seriously though, if you have more drive to comment on these forums telling people they're wrong without doing research for yourself, then clearly nothing I point you to will satisfy. From these words, I genuinely believe you didn't even bother to read my OP and just skipped to the last page to voice your thoughts based on the title. But let's break down your post.
This one is easy, in fact, I made a thread about just this today here! This is only one example, but please do tell me of all the 'unrealistic hopes and dreams', despite these coming from official dev blogs years before...
Unfortunately, currently, I do not have the skills or knowledge to implement scripts of my own. That being said, there are many, many, many people who do, and you can find their work here.
To direct you to some very key mods that in fact require programming, check out:
Freelancer
Diplomacy
Improved Garrisons
Custom Troop
And asthetic:
Open source Armoury/Swadian Armoury/Eagle Rising
Calradia Expanded/Calradia Expanded Kingdoms
But no, please do continue to undermine the hard work of the community! And I suppose I should add, exactly as you yourself say, if all of these can be created by modders, then TW themselves should be capable of this too. But... as you say, instead, you are content that within a year of EA you are content receiving:
Thanks, if only this mod hadn't already introduced these back... when? April 2020? One year before 1.5.9.
Respectfully, this makes no sense. We began getting weekly blogs from 2017-2019, describing the workings and features of the game. If you consider this OBSOLETE, then I hope you can understand how one might be skeptical about your knowledge of game development. There really isn't much to say other than you are objectively wrong here. A 2018 blog, 3 years ago during a ~8-10 year development is not considered 'out of date', and if any game developer (not just TW) considers this so, you should really invest into critical thinking and question, as a human being, that trouble might be stirring with these human beings.
In any case, if anything, even if you simply cannot fathom to understand why some people are disappointed in TW, at least respect their opinion to convey their emotions. TW does not feel bad, their earnings laugh away any mean bad words on the internet, after all, they have a dedicated modding community more than willing to create free content.
roffels11
lol! You're right!
Why are you asking in plural? Everyone is an individual here.
Yes, there are legendary coders on these forums
Yes there are amazing artists, 2D, 3D.
Including some ex TW employees still kicking it on the forums.
Xml files, that isn't much of modding, and most ppl know to at least fiddle with them if not create them.
Then there are also people who aren't any of those things, and don't know.
Asking a generalized rhetorical question like that, in order to illegitimize concerns of many is not a very reasonable way to go and is a very nasty generalization IMO.
Let people love the game, let people hate the game, can't tell people what to feel.
Not everyone is knowledgeable in software development, and that's completely fine. Everyone has their own thing, and they don't have to understand how much work is put behind a creative product like this game. Actually, one of the things you shouldn't do as a professional is throw that "You don't understand" thing at your customers.
However, I believe control over one's own emotions is something that any adult should have, or at least strive for. I disagree with the view that it's okay to be a toxic piece of **** if you have good and legitimate reasons to. I understand that the reasons are legitimate. Taleworlds built too much hype and betrayed the expectations they built themselves. Sure, you can be a **** with that justification, but that doesn't mean you're not a ****. Just don't go howling when someone comes in treating you like the **** that you are.
However, I believe control over one's own emotions is something that any adult should have, or at least strive for. I disagree with the view that it's okay to be a toxic piece of **** if you have good and legitimate reasons to. I understand that the reasons are legitimate. Taleworlds built too much hype and betrayed the expectations they built themselves. Sure, you can be a **** with that justification, but that doesn't mean you're not a ****. Just don't go howling when someone comes in treating you like the **** that you are.
It was pretty good...er ....funny though, hope he's back soon.
That's a very thoughtful response, thank you for taking the time for it.0 Death: finally something is at stake during a battle and enemy lords are not immortal anymore. You, your friends, your family and your enemies can die in battle, because... well... war is no game, but deadly.
1 The first thing is the new artstyle and time period/"historical setting": Late antiquity and early middleages are a fascinating time but no other videogame I know about, except for some point-and-click strategy games, uses this setting. The idea that there is late scotto-picto celts (Battania) fighting the Byzantine Empire (Calradian Empire) as well as frankish riders (Vlandia) which are at conflict with nord-west slaves/nothern europeans (Sturgia) and turkish/mongol/slavic riders (Khuzait are a mixture of many asian and southern cultures) is not that far from the actual historical conflicts between 400 and 1000 A.D..
2 The animations during combat: in Bannerlord, if you time it right, you can chain attacks to create a smooth animation-flow or use the simpler directional animations.
3 directional shield blocking: seems small but it takes skill to program and animate a big 3 D (shield) item stuck on an other 3 D item (the player character) both moving but rarely, or ideally never, clipping/interfering which triggers the correct soundeffect when hit by a third 3 D object (weapon). Plus it takes "player skill" to master properly or you simply choose the auto-block which still requires timing. Even Kingdom Come Deliverance could not pull this off but used the "simpler" method of timing based shields/blocking
4 Shieldbashes/dirty fighting: The DLC Viking Conquest had this in a rudimentary form, but Bannerlord did this on a new scale. Every weapon and all shields have a bash/surprise attack animation if you press the "interaction button". Seems not worth mentioning to the player, but it is complex to program and animate.
5 influence: Gaining influence points that you can exchange for money or spend on several actions in the Kingdom menu is a simple yet very effective way to "keep the game rewarding" after you got the renown you need for the position you want. In Warband the renown system was the most interesting social feature, in Bannerlord the mix of renown and influence creates two important factors that determine your status and range of action.
6 kingdom menu/"diplomacy"/politics: There were some mods that tried to add more political aspects to Warband, but they never reallay caught me. In Bannerlord the influence system interacting with decisions in your kingdom or being exchanged for enacting/cancelling active policies is fun. It is simple but adds enough roleplaying potential: you can be a sacred god emperor, a feudal state, a pseudo-republic or a military dictatorship focused on war for war's sake thanks to this system of adding and taking away policies. I'm already happy with what I got, as it is more than the diplomacy mod in Warband had to offer, but the more the better!
7 Marriage is more than a cosmetic detail: in Warband marrying gave you a realtionship boost and the option to start feasts of your own. That's nice, but more cosmetic and immersive than useful. Relationship could be gained by questing and letting Lords go freely after a battle, so it was an addition but not essential. In Bannerlord the entire clan system is based on marriage and the parents character traits determine their children's character.
8 The clan system and heritage: Every person lives and dies in Bannerlord, not just your soldiers. "Immortality" is gained by establishing your clan and having children. Your children or other relatives, if you die childless, will be your heirs. Without heirs, your possessions will be divided and shared throughout the realm. That's a nice approach to medieval nobility's culture. Oh, and creating independent AI parties and caravans is a fun little detail which helps to increase your kingdom's military strength and economy. They are a nice way to level up companions and family members passively.
9 armies: it is part of the kingdom menu, but I count this system seperately because the impact is outside of said menu and it has not much to do with roleplaying. It is the strategic core element, besides your own small party of course. Armies assemble, armies march together under a leader and they disperse because they cannot maintain their cohesion. The more influential the leader summoning the army is, the better it grows. The more independent parties are part of your kingdom the more could join your army. This is a adequate simulation of medieval warfare. Warband's system had no armies, but the role of marshal who could ask other lords to aid him. This was not bad, but Bannerlord's army-system is more accurate and just appeals to me more.
10 shortcuts, optinal content and interface/HUD: you can do everything through menues and the "talk"-shortcut button. The player can walk around settlements, enjoy the surroundings, the atmosphere, the small cultural details and walk physically to the notables or lords, but he does not have to. This saves time, frustration and helps avoiding loading screens on weak hardware/older computers.
+1
roffels11
You are welcome!
The difference with warband is that people liked the idea of it, not the game itself. It was a fairly barebones experience, hardly any of the mechanics worked, the balance was nonexistent, most of the gameplay was mindless grinding, there were a ton of bugs etc etc. It was a novelty more than anything else, and there was nothing to compare it to.
For a company 10x larger than the warband team to release a game only marginally different from the mess that is unmodded warband is obviously going to disappoint people.
I kinda agree with your logic but saying that native BL is marginally different from native warband is a bit of exageration.
In term of features, BL already offers far more interesting things to do, and it is not yet finished.
Only a question of time and patience (which may be hard to hear for people who has been following the develoment for 8 years...).
I like the way you put it here. I was trying to pin down why people praise Warband so much while it was actually really bad without mods, and it took years for those good mods to appear. Bannerlord hasn't got a proper chance to be improved with mods like Warband did because it's still in EA. People love the idea of what Bannerlord could have been, and are disappointed that it falls short on those expectations.
can you PM link?
Oh... A man after my own heart
Lack of regression testing is horrible. Like, devs "fix" errors and release the fixes without knowing for certain if anything is fixed at all. Almost disgusting.Similar threads
