So... How is Taleworlds getting away with this?

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Bloc

Archduke
WB
Would you say TW purposefully limits modders? I mean I wouldnt be surprised if that was the case, I remember that multiplayer servers in the beta were cut short with a very ridiculous statement from a developers, saying that they were giving credit to the modders that were making a fun enviroment and not to the devs. Imagine a company being jelaous of players prefering what the modding community offers and cutting them short as a result, its just childish
They really did that for MP custom servers. And the reason behind that was stupid indeed. However, I don't think they are purposefully limiting modders in their codebase with these limitations I think it's only happening because of different and bad coding practices developed within teams and such - but that's my personal idea. Some people say they heard from internal sources that they did it on purpose. True or not, there is this fact: the current codebase is not mod-friendly. And it's forcing modders to take hackish and dirty actions. It's making things harder than it should be.
 
It does relate to what you said: TW never had any intention of letting players do serious design work and dictate implementation to them but wanted people off their nuts about not releasing.
I'm not arguing whether or not the game should have or shouldn't have been released, but rather the legitimacy of their EA, since they tend to mostly rely on the QA and do less than the bare minimum in keeping us informed about the progress of the game.
Did you miss this part?

As for the first part of your sentence, well... it just isn't true. The new leveling system, a VERY critical part of the game is an example where TW, and to their absolute highest credit changed it in light of the feedback. The issue, however... it was remedied by mods in the first month of its EA release. This is not the only instance.
Well I don't know but selling the game early and getting free bug testing seems like a good deal for them. I think it seems like our feedback is ignored because TW just doesn't want many of the features that players assume should be in the game, such as everything missing from warband.
You are right 100% right in the bug testing department, it's absolutely necessary and TW is tackling as many instances of these issues which I and many others appreciate. That being said, the fault lies exactly in your first sentence. They are charging people to bug test their game, while also limiting (indirectly?) the people who attempt to improve upon it.

Furthermore, it's the features missing from WB, features that were either removed or have stagnated which makes BL play like a sidegrade to previous installments as opposed to an ultimate upgrade. This is becoming more apparent as more time passes with minimal improvements, making many wonder whether the game is truly in its 'polishing' stages, or if the content we have now is the bulk of it.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
The new leveling system, a VERY critical part of the game is an example where TW, and to their absolute highest credit changed it in light of the feedback.
It wasn't a serious design change. It takes about an hour to fix that issue. It was a freebie. This isn't even the first time they've done similar; using an incredibly minor fix to draw up goodwill. As for the legitimacy of EA, a company can do whatever it likes under the EA label. No one (least of all the consumer) is policing the matter.
 

roffels11

I'm just speculating here, but maybe developing a whole game with it's own engine isn't the same as hacking up a mod?
What!? You don't say! ;D
I think this thread has many cases of the "Dunning-Kruger-effect" and I asume people praising the omnipotence of modifications (mods) never tried to open an XML file. If they did, they would be confused and lost, because even XML is too abstract and complicated for them.
(The gag is that many files of Bannerlord are written in XML to be "easy to understand and modify", but most of these complaining children here wouldn't understand this joke, so I have to explain it to them in these paratheses.)

The childish, aggressive behavior of adults will never stop to amaze me. In this thread As well as how easily people fall for their own conspiracy myths/"theories". In this thread there are several false claims, which I simplify for the sake of humor. E.g.: "TaleWorlds took my money but didn't deliver a game. - I agree on myself - TaleWorlds does not develope Bannerlord but does nothing. - I agree on myself - Oh, and TaleWorlds Updates are not meaningful. - Of course I agree on this too, as I have no clue on how programing, animating 3-D models or any other aspect of gaming developement works!"
All these claims can be seen on the TaleWorlds forum and on YouTube. Let me debunk them:

- If TaleWorlds ran away with the costumers' cash, there would be no Bannerlord to download and play on Steam and gog.com.

- If there were no Updates we would still have version 1.0 instead of 1.5.9 (official) and 1.5.10 Beta - we wouldn't have a Beta in the firstplace! (Beta is there for testing and updating before releasing updates.) -.-

- First of all: the claim of updating the game in a not meaningful way contradicts the previous claim, because updates always need work, no matter how meaningful this seems to you. Second: I see many improvements between 1.0 and 1.5.9, such as working combat animations and walking mechanics (no more falling through the floor of a arena during a tournament), several new armour pieces, settlements, reworked trooptrees and a bigger number of companions compared to 1.0. The current banner creator and the current character creator are "new"/taken aspects from 1.0 but got muuuuuch more sliders, colours etc. in 1.5.9. The Sandbox Mode and the ability to choose your character's age are completely new.

So, how are they getting away with this? By developing the game despite the global Covid pandemic. Why am I wasting my time with this? I have no clue. I should stop answering this sort of "comments" (I don't dare calling this an "opinion").
 

WhyAmIHere

Veteran
The childish, aggressive behavior of adults will never stop to amaze me. In this thread As well as how easily people fall for their own conspiracy myths/"theories". In this thread there are several false claims, which I simplify for the sake of humor. E.g.: "TaleWorlds took my money but didn't deliver a game. - I agree on myself - TaleWorlds does not develope Bannerlord but does nothing. - I agree on myself - Oh, and TaleWorlds Updates are not meaningful. - Of course I agree on this too, as I have no clue on how programing, animating 3-D models or any other aspect of gaming developement works!"
All these claims can be seen on the TaleWorlds forum and on YouTube. Let me debunk them:

- If TaleWorlds ran away with the costumers' cash, there would be no Bannerlord to download and play on Steam and gog.com.

- If there were no Updates we would still have version 1.0 instead of 1.5.9 (official) and 1.5.10 Beta - we wouldn't have a Beta in the firstplace! (Beta is there for testing and updating before releasing updates.) -.-

- First of all: the claim of updating the game in a not meaningful way contradicts the previous claim, because updates always need work, no matter how meaningful this seems to you. Second: I see many improvements between 1.0 and 1.5.9, such as working combat animations and walking mechanics (no more falling through the floor of a arena during a tournament), several new armour pieces, settlements, reworked trooptrees and a bigger number of companions compared to 1.0. The current banner creator and the current character creator are "new"/taken aspects from 1.0 but got muuuuuch more sliders, colours etc. in 1.5.9. The Sandbox Mode and the ability to choose your character's age are completely new.

So, how are they getting away with this? By developing the game despite the global Covid pandemic. Why am I wasting my time with this? I have no clue. I should stop answering this sort of "comments" (I don't dare calling this an "opinion").
idk why you're wasting your time white-knighting either but you're welcome to stop
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVC
TaleWorlds Updates are not meaningful
People are ignoring the "small" improvements in Bannerlord, like the ability to make an army in one huge party, actual siege equipment like catapults and rams, more NPC notables, separating horse and its armor, the ability to make clan parties, caravans etc, despite the fact that all these new changes add up to a more enjoyable experience and open up a lot of potential. Apparently such updates should be taken for granted because they're so obvious.

Funny thing is, it's already a lot when we're talking about game sequels. Just look at other games like Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, Tekken, etc. They don't add big new systems every sequel, and people simply appreciate what new updates they get, but apparently because people have been playing Warband since they were infants, they deserve so much more for a price similar to those other games.
 

roffels11

It's almost like that's the problem... over a year my friend, over a year.
If you guys are such amazing and fast programers that can fix XML files and deeper code in one single hour, you should apply to TaleWorlds and become developers. ;D I can't wait to see your fast, perfectly working "hot fixes", guys. :^)

People are ignoring the "small" improvements in Bannerlord, like the ability to make an army in one huge party, actual siege equipment like catapults and rams, more NPC notables, separating horse and its armor, the ability to make clan parties, caravans etc, despite the fact that all these new changes add up to a more enjoyable experience and open up a lot of potential. Apparently such updates should be taken for granted because they're so obvious.

Funny thing is, it's already a lot when we're talking about game sequels. Just look at other games like Dark Souls, Monster Hunter, Tekken, etc. They don't add big new systems every sequel, and people simply appreciate what new updates they get, but apparently because people have been playing Warband since they were infants, they deserve so much more for a price similar to those other games.
Fascinating, isn't it? XD The absurde expectations some people have concerning Mount and Blade II Bannerlord are always a joy... It's not like Warband, With Fire and Sword and Bannerlord are three unique games on the market. There are no other games that combine fighting in third or first person, RPG and medieval battles with strategic commands. There are tons of boring turn based point-n-click games (Age of Empires, Total War) and some okay fantasy action RPGs (Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma) and one single game other than Bannerlord with a clan system and life-death-birth-cycle (Crusader Kings). The interesting combination of these things is unique to Mount and Blade, but people tend to forget about this.
 
The childish, aggressive behavior of adults will never stop to amaze me. In this thread As well as how easily people fall for their own conspiracy myths/"theories". In this thread there are several false claims, which I simplify for the sake of humor. E.g.: "TaleWorlds took my money but didn't deliver a game. - I agree on myself - TaleWorlds does not develope Bannerlord but does nothing. - I agree on myself - Oh, and TaleWorlds Updates are not meaningful. - Of course I agree on this too, as I have no clue on how programing, animating 3-D models or any other aspect of gaming developement works!"
All these claims can be seen on the TaleWorlds forum and on YouTube. Let me debunk them:

- If TaleWorlds ran away with the costumers' cash, there would be no Bannerlord to download and play on Steam and gog.com.

- If there were no Updates we would still have version 1.0 instead of 1.5.9 (official) and 1.5.10 Beta - we wouldn't have a Beta in the firstplace! (Beta is there for testing and updating before releasing updates.) -.-

- First of all: the claim of updating the game in a not meaningful way contradicts the previous claim, because updates always need work, no matter how meaningful this seems to you. Second: I see many improvements between 1.0 and 1.5.9, such as working combat animations and walking mechanics (no more falling through the floor of a arena during a tournament), several new armour pieces, settlements, reworked trooptrees and a bigger number of companions compared to 1.0. The current banner creator and the current character creator are "new"/taken aspects from 1.0 but got muuuuuch more sliders, colours etc. in 1.5.9. The Sandbox Mode and the ability to choose your character's age are completely new.

So, how are they getting away with this? By developing the game despite the global Covid pandemic. Why am I wasting my time with this? I have no clue. I should stop answering this sort of "comments" (I don't dare calling this an "opinion").

Fascinating, isn't it? XD The absurde expectations some people have concerning Mount and Blade II Bannerlord are always a joy... It's not like Warband, With Fire and Sword and Bannerlord are three unique games on the market. There are no other games that combine fighting in third or first person, RPG and medieval battles with strategic commands. There are tons of boring turn based point-n-click games (Age of Empires, Total War) and some okay fantasy action RPGs (Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma) and one single game other than Bannerlord with a clan system and life-death-birth-cycle (Crusader Kings). The interesting combination of these things is unique to Mount and Blade, but people tend to forget about this.
Dude, we got socks for Christmas AGAIN and we're grumpy about. They're really good socks and we really needed them, but we still wanted more toys.
Gonna say in case I didn't say it this thread, I think Bannerlord is a good game and I play it a lot. I'm not gonna tell other people they shouldn't be frustrated or pretend that I don't get frustrated too.
 

danEN

Knight at Arms
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
uninformed reddit andy's trying to convince us this game is good again

giphy.gif
 
The childish, aggressive behavior of adults will never stop to amaze me. In this thread As well as how easily people fall for their own conspiracy myths/"theories". In this thread there are several false claims, which I simplify for the sake of humor. E.g.: "TaleWorlds took my money but didn't deliver a game. - I agree on myself - TaleWorlds does not develope Bannerlord but does nothing. - I agree on myself - Oh, and TaleWorlds Updates are not meaningful. - Of course I agree on this too, as I have no clue on how programing, animating 3-D models or any other aspect of gaming developement works!"
All these claims can be seen on the TaleWorlds forum and on YouTube. Let me debunk them:

- If TaleWorlds ran away with the costumers' cash, there would be no Bannerlord to download and play on Steam and gog.com.

- If there were no Updates we would still have version 1.0 instead of 1.5.9 (official) and 1.5.10 Beta - we wouldn't have a Beta in the firstplace! (Beta is there for testing and updating before releasing updates.) -.-

- First of all: the claim of updating the game in a not meaningful way contradicts the previous claim, because updates always need work, no matter how meaningful this seems to you. Second: I see many improvements between 1.0 and 1.5.9, such as working combat animations and walking mechanics (no more falling through the floor of a arena during a tournament), several new armour pieces, settlements, reworked trooptrees and a bigger number of companions compared to 1.0. The current banner creator and the current character creator are "new"/taken aspects from 1.0 but got muuuuuch more sliders, colours etc. in 1.5.9. The Sandbox Mode and the ability to choose your character's age are completely new.

So, how are they getting away with this? By developing the game despite the global Covid pandemic. Why am I wasting my time with this? I have no clue. I should stop answering this sort of "comments" (I don't dare calling this an "opinion").
It's just not good game, it's bland. I will Save you the paragraph here.
 

dogu91

Recruit
Hey man, were you forced to buy an EA game?

If you don't like the game, don't buy it.
Are you an adult capable of making your own judgement? Then what is the point of this post?
What constructive critique are you bringing here?

Seriously, the forums need an age limit. The toxicity that is in the forums is at a crazy level and hurts any form of constructive dialogue. This sense of entitlement these people have is crazy to me....
Don't you guys have a life?
 

Bloc

Archduke
WB
If you don't like the game, don't buy it.
A brilliant logic to create constructive dialogue for improving the game indeed.

Since you are done with your anti-flaming like flaming message, or whatever it's called, now you can take a cup of tea, lean back and read what he wrote in the first post again. Then you can realize that he is actually asking a valid question - whether you like the tone or not.
 

murtega

Squire
Don't know if they plan to pull a fallout 76 out of this situation but to me it feels like there's a giant road blocker on their path of development which they can't overcome and until they do, they only deliver consept that is not directly connected to this issue. I may be completely wrong of course but their behavior makes me think so. Otherwise it's hard to believe there's almost no development on terms of how ai behaves in sieges for example, which is a core mechanic of your "battle simulation" game.

Ironic thing for me is how the mods that kept warband alive and kicking for 10 years, now bite them back. Bannerlord is no doubt a unique experience to new players to the game on terms of scale etc but veterans already experienced these, mainly thanks to mods and were expecting pretty much all features from them and much more new stuff. Yet Bannerlord is like a presentation prepared on previous night. Core stuff is more or less there but lots of typos, lacks style, etc.

Nevertheless I still think they'd not give up on it since it's their only game and polish it at least on a level that it compares to warband mods. Unfortunately those seem to be the only competition they have.
 

danEN

Knight at Arms
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
If you don't like the game, don't buy it.
To judge the game you must play the game, to play the game you must buy the game.
What constructive critique are you bringing here?

Seriously, the forums need an age limit. The toxicity that is in the forums is at a crazy level and hurts any form of constructive dialogue. This sense of entitlement these people have is crazy to me....
Don't you guys have a life?
You've spent 3 hours on the forums, I can assure you, you haven't the slightest clue the effort the community on the forums have put towards helping improve the game, there's been two years worth of threads since the closed beta talking about every single issue in detail and still TW's fail to fix the fundamental issues.

I beg you shut up with your uneducated obnoxiousness and understand the people on this forums have contributed to this game far more than you ever will.
 

PtitCon

Recruit
I know the title sounds bad, but hear me out, because I'm going full conspiracy mode here.

For those following both the progress of the game and developer responses, many may be familiar with the phrase "too complex". Taking that in mind, if any of you follow the Nexus or are aware of the modders in this forum, many may have noticed the number of VERY complex mods that modders create with an arm tied behind their back.

With those points in mind, let me quote the first two paragraphs for the reason for EA from TW directly:

“Early access is something that we are very familiar with: our first title, Mount & Blade, helped to pioneer this method of release back in 2005. By working alongside our community we were able to deliver a unique gaming experience that players still enjoy to this day. These past experiences have taught us that it is vital to bring players in to help us iron out any issues and refine the game by utilizing feedback to bring it to the level that both our community and we expect.

We are hoping to run a productive and efficient early access for M&B Bannerlord as well. However, due to the nature and scale of game that we have envisioned, there may be various problems or missing features and content during the course of early access."

Now at the beginning of EA, this statement made sense, now however... between their initial estimates of one year in EA and the delivery of content within that timeframe, the numbers just aren't adding up anymore. Let me be clear that I personally don't care that they didn't meet their "estimate", that isn't my point. My point is that from what we know, the direction of the game heavily implies that it isn't planned to be all that complex at all, which begs the question, what was the need for EA?

Maybe I'm being far too pessimistic, but as mentioned above, suggested community features that TW deemed too "complex" or outright ignore are making their way into the Nexus by modders who work in their free time.

Coming back to the topic sentence, how is it that TW is able to charge AA(a) price tag for a skeletal sidegraded version of WB, only to rely on the free working community members to flesh it out?
I've loved M&B since the beginning and will support Taleworlds through thick and thin but even I have to admit, after countless checking for meaningful updates and only reading in the list:
Fixed....
Fixed....
Fixed....
Fixed...
Added ( OH MY GOD! They added something ) helmet ( WHAT?!? )
Fixed...
Fixed...
...that I'm getting fed up waiting for things that will not come.
Where are all the things that made Warband great? Where are all the things that made Viking Conquest great?
Why can't my lord host a feast?
Where is the diplomacy?
Where is the marriage cutscene?
Is that all there is?

Taleworlds, why? OH WHY?? I had faith in you!
 
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- First of all: the claim of updating the game in a not meaningful way contradicts the previous claim, because updates always need work, no matter how meaningful this seems to you. Second: I see many improvements between 1.0 and 1.5.9, such as working combat animations and walking mechanics (no more falling through the floor of a arena during a tournament), several new armour pieces, settlements, reworked trooptrees and a bigger number of companions compared to 1.0. The current banner creator and the current character creator are "new"/taken aspects from 1.0 but got muuuuuch more sliders, colours etc. in 1.5.9. The Sandbox Mode and the ability to choose your character's age are completely new.
I am going to assume this is sarcasm. If not, then your ignorance really does know no bounds.
 

dogu91

Recruit
To judge the game you must play the game, to play the game you must buy the game.

You've spent 3 hours on the forums, I can assure you, you haven't the slightest clue the effort the community on the forums have put towards helping improve the game, there's been two years worth of threads since the closed beta talking about every single issue in detail and still TW's fail to fix the fundamental issues.

I beg you shut up with your uneducated obnoxiousness and understand the people on this forums have contributed to this game far more than you ever will.
Bruh, I've been playing this game since M&B 0.5 something something. This is not my first account, some fascist mod in the Turkish forums (IF ANY MOD IS READING THIS, I'D LOVE TO HAVE MY ANCIENT ACCOUNT RESTORED IF POSSIBLE, because it was banned for political reasons) banned it for my political views years ago. I've been involved since like 2006-7.

I re-created an account just for this game to re-participate on the forums and all I found here are a ton of toxic, fatalistic, useless posts that are more concerned about insulting the team.
 

danEN

Knight at Arms
WBM&BWF&SNWVC
Bruh, I've been playing this game since M&B 0.5 something something. This is not my first account, some fascist mod in the Turkish forums (IF ANY MOD IS READING THIS, I'D LOVE TO HAVE MY ANCIENT ACCOUNT RESTORED IF POSSIBLE, because it was banned for political reasons) banned it for my political views years ago. I've been involved since like 2006-7.

I re-created an account just for this game to re-participate on the forums and all I found here are a ton of toxic, fatalistic, useless posts that are more concerned about insulting the team.
Sure buddy, calling everyone else toxic but you're the one banned and ban evading, extremely believable
 
Bruh, I've been playing this game since M&B 0.5 something something. This is not my first account, some fascist mod in the Turkish forums (IF ANY MOD IS READING THIS, I'D LOVE TO HAVE MY ANCIENT ACCOUNT RESTORED IF POSSIBLE, because it was banned for political reasons) banned it for my political views years ago. I've been involved since like 2006-7.

I re-created an account just for this game to re-participate on the forums and all I found here are a ton of toxic, fatalistic, useless posts that are more concerned about insulting the team.

Well I guess we'll see about that. If you get banned for ban evasion we'll know you are telling the truth. If not, we'll know you're lying.
 
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