So... How is Taleworlds getting away with this?

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Well... I was just going to link this, but having a modder - one that created a heavily requested feature no less - respond, @Short_n_quick I'm sure you get the point.
People dont listen to reason in these kinda threads, they most of the time just wanna get their point across :^)
Granted, yes, the overlying part of my post was to get a point across, the thing is, I don't believe my point is necessarily wrong. TW is feeding off of free labour, and the fact that I need to rely on modders to make the game bearable, a year into EA development... I don't know, I think my point holds pretty damn hard.
 

[Rei]

Knight at Arms
WBVC
Granted, yes, the overlying part of my post was to get a point across, the thing is, I don't believe my point is necessarily wrong. TW is feeding off of free labour, and the fact that I need to rely on modders to make the game bearable, a year into EA development... I don't know, I think my point holds pretty damn hard.
Was not targeted at your post or reasoning. That's just the typical posts these days. I wont state anything regarding the whole situation, because I, like everyone else know jack shít about it, also as previously stated by others. We can only speculate. And thats a rabbit hole I'm not gonna go down :>
 

RJ_Sera

Veteran
yeah i'm still salty about that, the old orders hotkeys worked wonderfully and not a singlesoul complained about it beyond wanting even more options, they changed it for consoles and actually broke the way many used to play the game, it was so easy to position your troops exactly where you wanted and facing exactly what you wanted before and now it's a chore that barely works, they said they would try to improve it (a problem they created themselves) months ago and we got nothing.

there was tons of feedback on how to make the hotkeys good and useful and they were all ignored..
I think i'm the only one having this problem lmao
 
Was not targeted at your post or reasoning. That's just the typical posts these days. I wont state anything regarding the whole situation, because I, like everyone else know jack shít about it, also as previously stated by others. We can only speculate. And thats a rabbit hole I'm not gonna go down :>
Sorry about that then! You are right though, no matter how much we criticize, complain, and post on these forums, at the end of the day we are ignorant as to what goes on in the TW office.
 

Grank

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVC
Have you any idea how software development works?
You should already know that most people don't. They only care about the end result that they see and experience, which is fair. People don't need to know about everything.

The root of the problem is really the attitude. When someone doesn't know about something, you'd assume they'd be respectful when talking about it, but nope. Gotta be rude. Something something arrogance something something from ignorance. I don't remember the original quote. What language was it even in...
 

DariusPlayer

Recruit
I know the title sounds bad, but hear me out, because I'm going full conspiracy mode here.

For those following both the progress of the game and developer responses, many may be familiar with the phrase "too complex". Taking that in mind, if any of you follow the Nexus or are aware of the modders in this forum, many may have noticed the number of VERY complex mods that modders create with an arm tied behind their back.

With those points in mind, let me quote the first two paragraphs for the reason for EA from TW directly:

“Early access is something that we are very familiar with: our first title, Mount & Blade, helped to pioneer this method of release back in 2005. By working alongside our community we were able to deliver a unique gaming experience that players still enjoy to this day. These past experiences have taught us that it is vital to bring players in to help us iron out any issues and refine the game by utilizing feedback to bring it to the level that both our community and we expect.

We are hoping to run a productive and efficient early access for M&B Bannerlord as well. However, due to the nature and scale of game that we have envisioned, there may be various problems or missing features and content during the course of early access."

Now at the beginning of EA, this statement made sense, now however... between their initial estimates of one year in EA and the delivery of content within that timeframe, the numbers just aren't adding up anymore. Let me be clear that I personally don't care that they didn't meet their "estimate", that isn't my point. My point is that from what we know, the direction of the game heavily implies that it isn't planned to be all that complex at all, which begs the question, what was the need for EA?

Maybe I'm being far too pessimistic, but as mentioned above, suggested community features that TW deemed too "complex" or outright ignore are making their way into the Nexus by modders who work in their free time.

Coming back to the topic sentence, how is it that TW is able to charge AA(a) price tag for a skeletal sidegraded version of WB, only to rely on the free working community members to flesh it out?
Idk man, all i can do is write a negative steam review, tell youtubers about the failure of failworlds and ****post. If anyone here has a better idea on what we can do then please tell me, tell us. We need to ruin Taleworlds forever.
 
Idk man, all i can do is write a negative steam review, tell youtubers about the failure of failworlds and ****post. If anyone here has a better idea on what we can do then please tell me, tell us. We need to ruin Taleworlds forever.
We should never try to ruin TW, that was not the intention of this thread. The reason for this, and I'd like to think many other threads is to voice our concerns for this game out of care and hope for improvement, not to run TW into the ground.

I just wanted to know why a paid EA if they were sticking with a closed Alpha mindset in terms of feedback.
 

WhyAmIHere

Veteran
I just wanted to know why a paid EA if they were sticking with a closed Alpha mindset in terms of feedback.
This is a very good and succinct way of putting it.

There is a chasm between TW's promises for communication during EA, and what they've delivered in terms of communication during EA.
 

Riffraff99

Veteran
This is a very good and succinct way of putting it.

There is a chasm between TW's promises for communication during EA, and what they've delivered in terms of communication during EA.

Yup, and even before EA they had horrible (nearly nonexistend) comunication to their community.
 
Three straight years of "release date W H E N ?" probably has something to do with it.
Yeah. No matter how disappointed or frustrated some people are, you can't forget about the years of comments of people begging for ANYTHING banner lord to playable for themselves!
That doesn't really relate to what I said though.

Before EA we had the closed and open Beta, both free with limited content where players such as myself were able to test features such as combat. Even then, most of the criticisms fell on deaf ears or were outright dismissed by the devs, which, ok fine it was a very select player base.

With EA coming around, however, I and many others expected some form of change in communication, especially since the product was being charged and communication was a staple for their reasoning in the EA. I'm not arguing whether or not the game should have or shouldn't have been released, but rather the legitimacy of their EA, since they tend to mostly rely on the QA and do less than the bare minimum in keeping us informed about the progress of the game.
 
That doesn't really relate to what I said though.

Before EA we had the closed and open Beta, both free with limited content where players such as myself were able to test features such as combat. Even then, most of the criticisms fell on deaf ears or were outright dismissed by the devs, which, ok fine it was a very select player base.

With EA coming around, however, I and many others expected some form of change in communication, especially since the product was being charged and communication was a staple for their reasoning in the EA. I'm not arguing whether or not the game should have or shouldn't have been released, but rather the legitimacy of their EA, since they tend to mostly rely on the QA and do less than the bare minimum in keeping us informed about the progress of the game.
Well I don't know but selling the game early and getting free bug testing seems like a good deal for them. I think it seems like our feedback is ignored because TW just doesn't want many of the features that players assume should be in the game, such as everything missing from warband. However it does seem like feedback on some subjects has been accepted more openly.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
That doesn't really relate to what I said though.

With EA coming around, however, I and many others expected some form of change in communication, especially since the product was being charged and communication was a staple for their reasoning in the EA. I'm not arguing whether or not the game should have or shouldn't have been released, but rather the legitimacy of their EA, since they tend to mostly rely on the QA and do less than the bare minimum in keeping us informed about the progress of the game.
It does relate to what you said: TW never had any intention of letting players do serious design work and dictate implementation to them but wanted people off their nuts about not releasing. So they did, with plenty of caveats about if players didn't want an incomplete game, they should just hold off on purchasing until the real release -- knowing damned well almost nobody does that.
 

SteveLig

Banned
:smile:
Not gonna go all the details, but few points to say:
- Normal users don't care if it's moddable af. They are not buying a game engine, they are buying a game.
- Normal users don't care if their internal code is a pile of mess. They are not buying a game engine, they are buying a game.
- What you are saying doesn't make any sense or supporting your argument at all - yes reading someone else's code is hard. But this is exactly what modders are doing. Yes, modders are doing "hackish" solutions because other roads are blocked - either purposely or unpurposely by TW. Doing something in a hackish way is x2 times harder than having the entire source code and doing it properly. So based on what you said, modders are doing x4 times more work and thought process than TW employee does and still successfully implements "complex" features.
- TW already did plan the game to make it moddable. But that happened at the beginning. The overall codebase isn't mod-friendly. I think that's because of how they code, some people think that's on purpose. That I can't know for sure, but clearly they are not mod-lover. Also, some parts are bugs, unrelated to mods. AI, for example, have literally NOTHING to do with modding at all. Sieges are a mess. They had 1 year to fix that, still no luck. Claiming that game is "slowly progressing" because of mods is just trying to find black sheep on their bad management.

Feel free to trigger as long as you don't insult people or make it personal, I think everyone is fine with that.
Would you say TW purposefully limits modders? I mean I wouldnt be surprised if that was the case, I remember that multiplayer servers in the beta were cut short with a very ridiculous statement from a developers, saying that they were giving credit to the modders that were making a fun enviroment and not to the devs. Imagine a company being jelaous of players prefering what the modding community offers and cutting them short as a result, its just childish
Well I don't know but selling the game early and getting free bug testing seems like a good deal for them. I think it seems like our feedback is ignored because TW just doesn't want many of the features that players assume should be in the game, such as everything missing from warband. However it does seem like feedback on some subjects has been accepted more openly.
Then they shouldnt get mad when and cut modders short when they offer a way better experience than them, and they definetly shouldnt get mad if players complain about the lack of these features and end up leaving for better experiences
 
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