Poll: Should the range on thrown weapons be reduced?

[Because]

Personally I don't mind the accuracy on thrown weapons. Sure I get hit a lot, but it doesn't feel unfair, what does feel unfair is the distance at which I can get hit.

This isn't just about looters and the amazing rock bowling skills (in my head all looters are all just professional cricketers, but their sport has been disrupted by the constant wars and they are just trying to put their skills to good use). It just seems impossible that people could reliably throw knives, axes and stones to the distance that they do in this game. To my mind all thrown weapons bar javelins should have a fairly short range. Even Javelins shouldn't have a range comparable to bows or crossbows.

I'm interested to know if this perception is just the result of me getting clobbered at range by an assortment of random sticks and stones one time too many or if it's a widely held sentiment.

 

[Cochus1]

Yes. Its a bit weird the range of throwing weapons ATM. Most calradia warriors could win the Olympic Games with that skills...

 

[archaicwarrior]

I would say yes but warriors train all their life to throw spears / javs / pilum etc. This builds up huge arm muscles and accuracy. Actual battle javs would probably be lighter than training javs, to increase range.

 

[MightyMidgit]

OTHER:
I would be fine if throwing speed (and so distance by relation) is tied more to your throwing skill than some weapon stat. This way, if someone is not very good at throwing, they won't be able to do much with a javelin, but perhaps they could still throw a throwing knife far because of its light weight. If someone is has a high throwing skill, I have no issue with them matching Olympic distances or better. Throwing axes could be the mid ground of short throwing distance by default but a lot of damage.

 

[voronius]

OTHER:
I would be fine if throwing speed (and so distance by relation) is tied more to your throwing skill than some weapon stat. This way, if someone is not very good at throwing, they won't be able to do much with a javelin, but perhaps they could still throw a throwing knife far because of its light weight. If someone is has a high throwing skill, I have no issue with them matching Olympic distances or better. Throwing axes could be the mid ground of short throwing distance by default but a lot of damage.

You can probably research the actual numbers and scale by the troop skill with high tier being close to olympic range and low tier quite far below (1/3 or 1/2) and linear interpolate based on their skills between those 2 points.

 

[Owen Wulfson]

Other:

The player has a reasonable range due to the limitations of his or her targeting ability versus the arc & travel of the weapon. However, npc don't have such limitations and so will throw their weapons at incredible ranges with a good chance of hitting. A good solution would be to tweak the npc so they will not throw a ranged weapon until very close to their enemy with a good chance of success.

Additionally, a charging npc should prioritize running over throwing their weapon save at extremely close range, while a holding one should be granted a longer kill range (though not by much) to reflect that they are steady.

So in short, the priority should be in fixing the AI and not the weapon.

 

[YariAshigaru]

I say no because i've noticed for the most part. the AI only gets 1 or 2 throws before the lines meet.

 

[Rycon Caldestan]

OTHER:
I would be fine if throwing speed (and so distance by relation) is tied more to your throwing skill than some weapon stat. This way, if someone is not very good at throwing, they won't be able to do much with a javelin, but perhaps they could still throw a throwing knife far because of its light weight. If someone is has a high throwing skill, I have no issue with them matching Olympic distances or better. Throwing axes could be the mid ground of short throwing distance by default but a lot of damage.

+1 great idea

 

[CryoNomad]

I say no because i've noticed for the most part. the AI only gets 1 or 2 throws before the lines meet.

I agree. About the only time they get more throws in is a siege, but even that's not game breaking for me.

 

[Ichon]

OTHER:
I would be fine if throwing speed (and so distance by relation) is tied more to your throwing skill than some weapon stat. This way, if someone is not very good at throwing, they won't be able to do much with a javelin, but perhaps they could still throw a throwing knife far because of its light weight. If someone is has a high throwing skill, I have no issue with them matching Olympic distances or better. Throwing axes could be the mid ground of short throwing distance by default but a lot of damage.

Yes, this plus allowing throwing knives to be equipped as civilian clothing and have much higher carry capacity. I don't really understand 5 javelins but only 3 knives. 5 Javelins is possible I think though perhaps that 5th javelin is only if you have a perk for throwing.Javelins having their current range seems fine, just need to tweak when the AI NPC will throw to a bit shorter distance when on fire at will.

Axes main advantage should be that they are effective in combat or as a thrown weapon that does decent damage at short and medium range so switching weapons is not a big deal- maybe groups of 2 axes so 6 axes in 3 weapon slots+shield vs 10 javelins in 2 weapons slot + a hand weapon + shield. Perhaps a stun effect as well to make up for the limited range and quantity as I am not sure just not having to switch weapons is enough of a trade-off vs speed/high quantity of knives or the range and high damage of javelins.

Throwing knives would be the most accurate but least damage and lowest range but can be carried in higher quantities. I used to have a brace of 7 throwing knives that was quite small relative to an axe of javelin, I could easily see up to 9 knives per set so 18 knives + hand weapon + shield.

 

[TheShermanator]

Other:

The player has a reasonable range due to the limitations of his or her targeting ability versus the arc & travel of the weapon. However, npc don't have such limitations and so will throw their weapons at incredible ranges with a good chance of hitting. A good solution would be to tweak the npc so they will not throw a ranged weapon until very close to their enemy with a good chance of success.

Additionally, a charging npc should prioritize running over throwing their weapon save at extremely close range, while a holding one should be granted a longer kill range (though not by much) to reflect that they are steady.

So in short, the priority should be in fixing the AI and not the weapon.

+1, generally speaking. The AI should not be so accurate, such that the javelins thrown at the maximum range should be much less likely to hit their target vs. the status quo. That said, I think the AI should still chuck their javelins at max range anyway. As it is, the speed soldiers + range is such that a defending formation only throws 1-2 javelins anyway. I'd hate to see them not throw them at all while waiting for the maximally accurate shot.

 

[Mastigos]

Throwing in general seems a little strong, but throwing knives need a bit of a buff. Throwing is in a weird spot. Its not problematic, but not completely balanced.

 

[Honved]

The average soldier may spend hours each day practicing their martial skills, but an Olympic athlete will spend hours each day on one specific skill. Somehow, most of the typical rank and file soldiers in Calradia manage to outperform Olympic gold medalists at throwing on a regular basis. You simply cannot throw an axe or javelin over a quarter mile, and even bow ranges in the game are exaggerated.

I recall one battle where the last opponent was taken out by my troops far across the map, and about 10-12 seconds later, while I was just about to hit the "tab" key to end the battle, a javelin landed about 10 feet in front of my character. The last opponent had barely been visible at that distance, and tossed a Hail Mary throw at the player character practically half-way across the entire map, despite being engaged in melee combat.

1 - The range really needs reduction. Small, light objects can be thrown faster, but will have their speed drop off over distance. An object that's too heavy to allow it to be freely thrown will not travel as far (a shotput is too heavy for a proper overhead throw, and must be "pushed"), and one that's too light for its size will suffer more from friction with the air, so there's some "optimal" size and weight for a thrown object to achieve maximum distance. Hint: that's a LOT less than a quarter mile, regardless of size/weight.

2 - Always having at least one NPC targeting the player character gets to be a bit ridiculous at times, especially when they're obviously ignoring far more immediate threats to do so.

3 - Ammo quantities should be higher for small light-weight throwing objects such as knives and rocks, and quite limited for bigger, heavier items like throwing axes and javelins. Carrying 7 throwing axes, plus the usual heavy melee weapon and shield, seems a bit over the top. Arrow quivers seem to be slightly exaggerated as well, but not as drastically as the heavy throwing weapons, which should be limited to 2-3 throws. Lowering the throwing range AND reducing the ammo load would mean that the bad-odds long-range shots/throws wouldn't happen, so the reduced ammo should still deal nearly the same total damage as it does now.

 

[Anteriass]

Throwing damage needs to be severely reduced in point blank range, I know it might not be realistic, but the amount of times I get INSTAHEADSHOTAIMBOT 180 killed by some dumb javelin thrower while I'm trying to chop his head is ridiculous. Like literally I would go up to him and I'de insta die and look at the feedback and it says 105 dmg to neck.. like okay dude.. no.

It's so fast I don't even see the animation, I think it's some weird glitch.

 

[bestmods168]

Are you talking about ai or multiplayer? Some people in multiplayer cheat. When you use throwing weapons you have to aim very high. Ive seen some people just look straight and be able to throw very far.

 

[kweassa]

...so, what is the actual range of the thrown weapons in the game?
I'm not sure how you guys are discussing this as a subject by just saying "range," but no one citing any actual data.

(1) what is the current in-game range of thrown weapons?
(2) what was the real-life range of thrown weapons, both maximum and effective?

Anyone know above? I sure don't.

 

[TheShermanator]

No idea in absolute terms. What I've observed, though, is that, with 2 formations on flat ground and one running towards the other, the missile throwers seem to have time for 1-2 missiles before the formations meet in melee. Thus my opinion that the range is fine (even if accuracy needs to be re-tuned).

But that's anecdotal. Are other people seeing tons of missiles being thrown per thrower at a charging enemy?

 

[Agroplode]

I only have problem with the top tier javelins doing way to much damage. The range seems fine and accuracy on screens shots and videos show my soldiers are horribly inaccurate. If the enemy starts to runaway at an angle, then even my archers missed over 30 shots.

 

[Honved]

Current world record distance for a thrown javelin is 98 meters. There are mentions of axes hitting a target at 70 feet, which is a bit less than 25 meters, and knives hitting out to 33 meters. I don't know how far the throwing distance is in the game, but the little dots that I see way off in the distance have no business being able to reach me with arrows, much less axes and javelins.

Note that throwing an axe properly is an art form, as an axe thrown by an untrained thrower will tend to rotate in flight, potentially hitting handle-first or with some other less-dangerous surface. Either the rotation must be tightly controlled so that it rotates and strikes blade-first at that distance, or else the axe must be thrown in such a way that it does not rotate, which takes a LOT of skill. The Calradians apparently master this at birth.

 

[Hugo_Stiglitz]

PVE. Javelins are fine. Have you tried throwing them from horseback or during campaign map battles? Load up and only use Javelins an entire gaming session. Not quite as easy as some are suggesting and not quite as seemingly OP as they appear in Arena or practice fights. Way way easier to do well with a bow and two quivers than Javelins in field battles.

If I get one shot by an enemy Jav in a field battle so be it. Luckily I have the mod, which should be standard part of the game IMO, where when I die in combat I swap to one of my companions or one of my troops and fight on.

As far as Javelins and PVP I have no idea and I certainly hope we're not balancing PVE and PVP together.