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Let's hope the MP team doesn't consider "leashing" or forced recall to be a bandaid fix and are more willing to view it as a proper solution and preventative measure that will ultimately solve this issue. It seems to be the most effective and also the easiest approach to fix Rambo, and while I know they have expressed the desire to improve Ai (which is always a welcome improvement) "leashing" or forced recall after a reasonable distance will prevent Rambo entirely and is ultimately a better method to achieve this.
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Doesn't the infantry captain do the same with archers? In your example, this is an archer AI problem, not a rambo problem. And I agree with Gerius (they, together with Mexicano, know a lot about Rambo
) about the weak effectiveness of infantry formations. Fixing this would be a better solution to the rembo problem than some kind of forced squad binding:[] Unless you want to get an arcade game
bruh... you are a little faster))
I agree with Ling on this. Rambo need to be fixed. And I know from the dev's pov, "leashing" would be easy to implement in the mode, and would make it impossible to do rambo at all. But, that would also degrade the gameplay further. Why not look on why cav players don't want to engage all their units in a fight, and work on that instead? Cav as a support role, is not that effective anymore. Even if the cav AI would get even better than they are now, I don't think it will prompt any cav player to go all in.
Because archers have been nerfed long time ago, and are not a factor you really need to fear on the battlefield anymore. Their accuracy, firerate and movement speed is so bad that 1 single cav can make 1-2 entire groups of archers stop making damage on enemy inf, and also kill and weakened them before he is down. And by then, the inf battle is more or less over. Archers are totally useless vs cav. I used 20 arrows to bring down a rambo cataphract the other day, and all 20 arrows was a hit. Being archer, if I want firerate and accuracy, then I lose damage. If I want damage, I lose firerate and accuracy. The archer captain simply can't do anything to protect his own units vs 1 single cav. There was a time where I could pick up his horse and spear, and go 1v1 on the attacking rambo, but the handicap is way to high for that to be effective anymore. Also removing the possibility to bring spears have made rambo a good tactic.
And if cav AI would be further improved, and cav players would attack with full force, then they could destroy my poor archers in max 2-3 attacks. Because cav AI, after the fixes and buffs, actually are pretty strong. Done in the right way, 1 single full charge on archers will kill 4-5 of them, and make several 100 bump damage on the rest. I know many that think inf need to protect archers vs cav, but that is simply not possible on the battlefield often. And since archers make no real damage anymore, it would be a waste of inf, that needs to be in the formation with the others, to face the enemy inf, or they would be outnumbered.
So, plz don't nerf or buff cav in cap mode to fix this problem. Cav, is more or less perfect as they are right now. The only thing cav AI have to learn, is to reform every time the captain uses f1 f3.
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We want to prevent rambo entirely including making infantry unable to use this exploit as well, not just to make it less effective. Thats why I don't use the term rambo cav, when I talk about rambo im referring to any solo captain that goes off alone. I think spear formations and archer Ai should also be fixed on top of leashing, but those changes do nothing to prevent rambo on their own. If people want to play as 1 unit at a time then they should play tdm, skirmish, or siege where that type of gameplay already is the standard. Captain should always be about controlling troops, and fighting alongside your units. How do you gaurentee this? Simple: you force people to stay with their units so they cannot go off alone.Doesn't the infantry captain do the same with archers? In your example, this is an archer AI problem, not a rambo problem. And I agree with Gerius (they, together with Mexicano, know a lot about Rambo
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Why is it not finished yet?
The game is not finished yet, because it is still being worked on.
Why is it still being worked on?
It is still being worked on because it is not finished.
ok, but in my opinion this will lead to a significant narrowing of the tactical variety in the game. Such elements of tactics as reconnaissance, luring the enemy into an ambush, distracting part of the attacking group on themselves will become inaccessible. And this will cause serious damage to the gameplay and the realism of the battle (it will increase its arcadeness). Therefore, I still propose to fix / improve those elements of the game that really require it and not violate the achieved high level of balance and realism, trying to change these aspects of the game.
There is nothing realistic about a battlefield commander going off alone and attacking an enemy group of soldiers by himself, that's called suicide. As for scouting, you can do that with your entire unit beside you there is no need to do it as a solo unit. There is nothing really tactical about abusing the Ai and participating in a low risk high reward "strategy" of 1vs20 other than maximizing efficiency of lives. If you truly care about realism then you would be in favor of a 1-life restriction above all else, as you wouldn't be able to realistically respawn and use your comrades as extra lives. This is another proposed solution to eliminating rambo. Rambo needs to go in order for this game to ever regain its playerbase. This does not prevent the devs from additionally improving other aspects of the gamemode either such as Ai.
That's exactly my point. And I bet even with leashing most cav players will try to make a work around, and still do rambo. Attacking with 1 cav and constantly move the parked units away from the enemy. I think TW have to change their approach on how they "fix" balance in cap mode.
A good example is, again, Archers. Before the skirmish update 1.5.0 was imposed on cap mode, archers were 100% working as they should, they simply forced cav into a support role for inf. No one I know thought archers were too op or needed any nerf or buff. But, that update broke the mechanics by mistake. And instead of just fixing that, TW went on and nerfed the speed of inf units. And no one ever complained about inf being too fast in a shield wall either. And that "fix" also introduced a bug in unit formations that still haven't been fixed.
I am super much against imposing any restrictions on group composition in tournaments. But that might be the best "fix" to rambo tactics.
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Cek
Knight
I think having a way of "force follow" after some distance from the captain or even in some case not be possible to "park" your unit will not remove the tactics element you list, they just become more risky, you can still recon with a cavalry unit (even better if they make more different the speed between light and heavy cavalry, so the light one could be specialized in recond and capturing flags while the bulky and slower heavy cavalry have more use as support in the fight), you can still try to bait an enemy unit in an ambush but risking your whole unit as "high risk, high reward" tactic.
Because right now even as infantry class if you have a two-hand weapon you can go alone against a light infantry unit group and kill almost them all if the enemy captain is distracted for some reason, without risking any of yours, and i don't think this type of lone course of actions should be encouraged.
Well, this is one of the manifestations of the realism and cooperative meaning of the captains mode. This is realized through the specialization of the roles of different classes of units that requires the interaction of players: archers are indispensable against weakly defended and heavily armed (with two-handed weapons) "stormtroopers", but they need the help of spearmen from cavalry, who, in turn, are vulnerable to heavy infantry and archers... and It is not at all necessary for the stormtrooper to drag the entire squad with him if he sees a disorganized squad of a class that is vulnerable to him. However, I want to note that for about 3 thousand parties in this wonderful game I did not have to deal with the extermination of my infantry squad by the only captain... at least I don’t remember that
Cek
Knight
I agree with you that the cooperation between different classes should be the base of the game mode, unfortunatly right now with how easy it is to exploit some AI behaviour (like archers that target a lone cav player rather than the charging stormtroopers, killing each other in the process), this is not possible outside match with all random players.Well, this is one of the manifestations of the realism and cooperative meaning of the captains mode. This is realized through the specialization of the roles of different classes of units that requires the interaction of players: archers are indispensable against weakly defended and heavily armed (with two-handed weapons) "stormtroopers", but they need the help of spearmen from cavalry, who, in turn, are vulnerable to heavy infantry and archers... and It is not at all necessary for the stormtrooper to drag the entire squad with him if he sees a disorganized squad of a class that is vulnerable to him. However, I want to note that for about 3 thousand parties in this wonderful game I did not have to deal with the extermination of my infantry squad by the only captain... at least I don’t remember that
So unfortunatly some class are pretty much never used like skirmisher or light cavalry and that is a pity, because it could be a better game mode if every class would be viable.
The problem with that approach is that a human is always going to figure out a way to trick the AI (well, until all games have some type of AlphaStar AI opponents or something ). The solution to Rambo-ing needs to be something that players count get around or exploit.
). The solution to Rambo-ing needs to be something that players count get around or exploit.
Exactly! Finally someone gets it. I couldn't have said it any better myself Callum, this is precisely what I believe as well. Thank you for your understanding. As long as we allow it to happen at all people will figure out a way to use it as an exploit, and the only way to gaurantee that it doesn't get used is to prevent the player from using it entirely, one way or another. I fully support your suggestion.The problem with that approach is that a human is always going to figure out a way to trick the AI (well, until all games have some type of AlphaStar AI opponents or something
I guess if leashing will be a thing to fight and remove rambo, the "follow me" command can be removed also. It's a degradation of the gameplay, and humans will find a workaround to do rambo anyway. It's a wrong approach to fixing the problem. It's more a punishment than a fix I think. And if ALL classes are going to be on a forced leash, then so many other tactical elements and situations, that has nothing to do with rambo, will disappear also. For instance, being able to delay charging inf alone, while giving your archers a waypoint. How freaking frustrating it would be if they only run like 10 meters, and then turn around to run back to me, into sure death.The problem with that approach is that a human is always going to figure out a way to trick the AI (well, until all games have some type of AlphaStar AI opponents or something
I think we need to wait with this "fix", and work on the other stuff instead. Because rambo tactics have been possible since the EA release. But has only recently been discovered as a "tactic". I actually suspect that using ALL your cav as a support IS a viable and strong tactic in the mode right now. We just need to "discover" the right way to do it.
