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[Olaf The Cruel]

I would also be in favor of restricting Captain respawns to 1-3 lives as it achieves the same thing, you will have to weigh the potential cost of the engagement (potentially dying and not being able to respawn) with the benefits (distracting or killing enemy ai) and then make the decision of whether or not you deem it worth it in any given scenario.

This would destroy captain mode as we know it. It's again some kind of punishment rather than a fix. If I die1-3 times the game is over, and I have to watch my AI run around like headless chickens, to be abused and raped so easily without the my guidance. That "fix" would also open up for tactics only to kill the captains first and ignore the AI. And also make 90% of all other tactics obsolete. It will make everyone hide in a square formation, with the captains in the middle.

 

[Ling*]

I disagree ofc. In any tactical game, applying a wrong tactic or counter, will make you lose. An exploit, is the definition of not being able to do any tactic or counter to combat it. That there is many situations to be in, where you are more or less done and dead before the round is over, is what makes this mode so damn enjoyable. The fact that you have to guess what unit composition the enemy will apply is also what makes this mode so so interesting. It's about having so many tactics available as possible, and not be restricted in anyway. That will open up the gameplay and make every round more interesting. The balance ofc, need to be ok, or the mode will die or be super boring. Then the same tactic will be used every time.

Exploiting the Ai is not a tactic, it's an exploit.

Edit: You are always welcome to play skirmish if you prefer to play 1 unit at a time.

 

[Olaf The Cruel]

Exploiting the Ai is not a tactic, it's an exploit.

Edit: You are always welcome to play skirmish if you prefer to play 1 unit at a time.

Using a tactic to kill the AI is not an exploit, it's a tactic. And a tactic can be countered. An exploit cannot.

From the English dictionary :

exploit verb [T] (USE UNFAIRLY)​

B2
to use someone or something unfairly for your own advantage:

When I am playing captain I don't attack 1 unit at a time. I dunno why you would think that. I don't attack with 1 unit at a time, because it is NOT a good tactic to use vs teams on my own level.

But, I don't play captain very often anymore. It is simply too frustrating for me. I think we need to delete all skirmish updates imposed on the mode, and start over. I believe to move forward, we need to go backwards. Instead of punishing players with restrictions.

 

[Ling*]

I think we need to delete all skirmish updates imposed on the mode, and start over.

Atleast we agree on something, lol.

Using a tactic to kill the AI is not an exploit, it's a tactic. And a tactic can be countered. An exploit cannot.

An enemy climbing into a rock and shooting through it can be countered by climbing inside the rock yourself and killing the person doing it.
If someone uses it to their advantage by your standards this could be considered a tactic.
This is still an exploit, regardless, whether or not it can be countered is irrelevant to that fact.

 

[Olaf The Cruel]

An enemy climbing into a rock and shooting through it can be countered by climbing inside the rock yourself and killing the person doing it.
If someone uses it to their advantage by your standards this could be considered a tactic.
This is still an exploit, regardless, whether or not it can be countered is irrelevant to that fact.

When I see players using glitching as a "tactic", I don't glitch myself to "counter it". I report them! And I urge the rest of the team to do the same. And often report the bug to TW, so it can be removed.

 

[Gerius]

Ling dont be offened but im wondering if you really play in the same game as we are... Your suggestions would murder this game. As Aliaksandr said - there are experienced veterans and new players and i think you want to make game equal for everyone and make experience useless.

I have offer for you - take 6 people and play rambo vs my clan, we will show you how easy we can counter it.

People are lazy - they takes infantry and go mid, not even trying to make something different than f1 f3 and i think your ideas would make game exactly like that - boring, equal no matter how experienced players are, better factions wins.

 

[Sigaretovic]

Ling dont be offened but im wondering if you really play in the same game as we are... Your suggestions would murder this game. As Aliaksandr said - there are experienced veterans and new players and i think you want to make game equal for everyone and make experience useless.

I have offer for you - take 6 people and play rambo vs my clan, we will show you how easy we can counter it.

People are lazy - they takes infantry and go mid, not even trying to make something different than f1 f3 and i think your ideas would make game exactly like that - boring, equal no matter how experienced players are, better factions wins.

I have offer for you. Go play a game mode where you only control 1 unit and where your amount of respawns are less abundant.

 

[Gerius]

I have offer for you. Go play a game mode where you only control 1 unit and where your amount of respawns are less abundant.

I have offer for you. Dont play Bannerlord.

 

[Ling*]

Ling dont be offened but im wondering if you really play in the same game as we are... Your suggestions would murder this game. As Aliaksandr said - there are experienced veterans and new players and i think you want to make game equal for everyone and make experience useless.

I have offer for you - take 6 people and play rambo vs my clan, we will show you how easy we can counter it.

People are lazy - they takes infantry and go mid, not even trying to make something different than f1 f3 and i think your ideas would make game exactly like that - boring, equal no matter how experienced players are, better factions wins.

I'm not the first one to come up with these suggestions, veteran players have been suggesting these very same things for a long time now, including former SkBr player @Brandis. who is quite experienced in playing in the competitive community.
The goal is not to make it an even playing field at all, its to encourage a commander playstyle where people control their troops and the focus is on unit control similar to battles in the singleplayer campaign, only instead of an Ai commander the commanders are players. This is what the developers have in mind for captain mode and not the skirmish with extra lives that it currently is.
I have no doubts that rambo can be dealt with, this is not the issue at all. The issue is that rambo promotes the wrong type of playstyle that is too focused on player combat instead of being a commander of troops like it should be.
But don't just take my word for it:

Spoiler

 

[Sigaretovic]

I have offer for you. Dont play Bannerlord.

What kind of suggestion is that? You're playing a game mode in a way that the devs have publicly stated is not the way as intentended. Because of that, other players are rightfully complaining. Now you're telling me and all the others not to play? Dude, get real.

 

[Gerius]

Sure, captain should be changed but your ideas would murder this mode. I hope devs will be less radical and they will find good way to make game better. I really want to use my full army, set up good, profitable formations - but at this moment formations are useless and i think this should be the way to make this game better.

You said captains should have only 1 life. Thats crazy! Imagine - there will be one captain who will survive vs 50 bots. Captain will take flag and will keep runing to win by moral. Did you think about that?

I'm not the first one to come up with these suggestions, veteran players have been suggesting these very same things for a long time now, including former SkBr player @Brandis. who is quite experienced in playing in the competitive community.
The goal is not to make it an even playing field at all, its to encourage a commander playstyle where people control their troops and the focus is on unit control similar to battles in the singleplayer campaign, only instead of an Ai commander the commanders are players. This is what the developers have in mind for captain mode and not the skirmish with extra lives that it currently is.
I have no doubts that rambo can be dealt with, this is not the issue at all. The issue is that rambo promotes the wrong type of playstyle that is too focused on player combat instead of being a commander of troops like it should be.
But don't just take my word for it:

Spoiler

 

[Ling*]

You said captains should have only 1 life.

No, I did not say that. What I said was "I would also be in favor of restricting Captain respawns to 1-3 lives". I am however more in favor of implementing a leash system as I believe it would still allow more freedom of movement for the captain (the exact length of the leash has yet to be specified, it could be 20 feet, it could be 100 feet), but the ultimate result would be that you cannot simply park your troops somewhere and ride off alone. Limited respawns are just an alternate suggestion that achieve a similar functionality albeit in a different way.

You are entitled to your opinion, but It's hard to take you seriously when your gameplay consists of parking your units in the corner and then riding off alone to kill enemy Ai. I don't really understand why you don't simply go play skirmish if this is how you want to play?

 

[Olaf The Cruel]

I'm not the first one to come up with these suggestions, veteran players have been suggesting these very same things for a long time now, including former SkBr player @Brandis. who is quite experienced in playing in the competitive community.
The goal is not to make it an even playing field at all, its to encourage a commander playstyle where people control their troops and the focus is on unit control similar to battles in the singleplayer campaign, only instead of an Ai commander the commanders are players. This is what the developers have in mind for captain mode and not the skirmish with extra lives that it currently is.
I have no doubts that rambo can be dealt with, this is not the issue at all. The issue is that rambo promotes the wrong type of playstyle that is too focused on player combat instead of being a commander of troops like it should be.
But don't just take my word for it:

Spoiler

You know, it's fine that TW have a "vision" with cap mode. And I would cheer and applause them for their effort if you asked me 10-15 updates ago. Now though, it's clear that they have very very little funds to work on the mode. I don't believe they are listening to the large majority of gamers that plays this mode, and are faithful to it. They had a foundation to build on, then they ruined that foundation with updates that no one asked for. And now we only get the cheap band aid "fixes". Where we are getting high amounts of painkillers instead of fixing the wound so it can heal.

 

[Gerius]

No, I did not say that. What I said was "I would also be in favor of restricting Captain respawns to 1-3 lives". I am however more in favor of implementing a leash system as I believe it would still allow more freedom of movement for the captain (the exact length of the leash has yet to be specified, it could be 20 feet, it could be 100 feet), but the ultimate result would be that you cannot simply park your troops somewhere and ride off alone. Limited respawns are just an alternate suggestion that achieve a similar functionality albeit in a different way.

You are entitled to your opinion, but It's hard to take you seriously when your gameplay consists of parking your units in the corner and then riding off alone to kill enemy Ai. I don't really understand why you don't simply go play skirmish if this is how you want to play?

Hey dude, i didnt say i want to play like that. You are a man who want to forbid everything for players and let them play the only way you respect. Im a man who want to improve this game, add new good stuff and make this game better, i want to give players new anti rambo formations.

Its hard to me take you seriously because your every idea will create few new problems. Why you don't simply go play singleplayer? There you can even use mods which make this game exactly what you want - with all these limits, army will stick to you, there will be no resurection after captain death - your perfect vision of game.

 

[Olaf The Cruel]

No, I did not say that. What I said was "I would also be in favor of restricting Captain respawns to 1-3 lives". I am however more in favor of implementing a leash system as I believe it would still allow more freedom of movement for the captain (the exact length of the leash has yet to be specified, it could be 20 feet, it could be 100 feet), but the ultimate result would be that you cannot simply park your troops somewhere and ride off alone. Limited respawns are just an alternate suggestion that achieve a similar functionality albeit in a different way.

You are entitled to your opinion, but It's hard to take you seriously when your gameplay consists of parking your units in the corner and then riding off alone to kill enemy Ai. I don't really understand why you don't simply go play skirmish if this is how you want to play?

Who would have known, that updating captain mode with 10-15 skirmish updates, would turn captain mode into a skirmish game? It's a big surprise, let's punish the players with restrictions so they will stay in the mode.

 

[Ling*]

Its . Why you don't simply go play singleplayer?

Simple, because the Ai commander does not provide the same level of challenge as a group of 6 real people who are commanders, which is the biggest appeal captain mode has.

These aren't my suggestions dude. I used to be just like you, I was against restricting rambo at all, and I was very vocal about it in fact. I have since changed my mind and my position on where I stand and have now gravitated towards other peoples suggestions and I now agree with them. I changed my mind because I have seen the progression of captain mode from the beginning of early access up until now, I have seen the evolution of this game mode and seen the negative impact that Rambo strategies have resulted in.

@Gerius @Olaf The Cruel This is how I used to think. EXACTLY how I used to think: Just look at this. I don't think this way anymore, I have changed my mind 100% and I now agree with Brandis. You know why I used to think this way? Because I used to use rambo as a tactic to my advantage and I was afraid to lose it as It was an incredibly powerful tool at my disposal. I have since had time to step back and look at the bigger picture and to see the impact that it has on the mode. I am not ashamed to say that I was wrong before.

To insinuate that I want to selfishly change the game mechanics to suit my specific vision of the mode is insulting, and entirely without merit, especially when you consider how much of my free time I have spent trying to give back to the captain mode community by providing them with a series of fun events that they can look forward to participating in. I do not get to play in these tournaments, I do not host them for me, and I want to make sure that all participants have fun, and currently most players are not having fun as a direct result of rambo and the many exploits that are caused by it that result in the events becoming "skirmish with extra lives". Many of the community members have suggested several ways to improve and prevent the rambo issue and I have reiterated them many times in this thread. These suggestions are not mine, they are by far the most common and most popular suggested solutions that have been put forth by other community members and I just so happen to agree with them.

 

[Gerius]

I never said i want status quo with rambo i just said i dont like your ideas like no ressurection or bots sticked to captain because these ideas will murder captain. We can make rambo unprofitable without revolution and destroying game.

 

[Ling*]

I never said i want status quo with rambo i just said i dont like your ideas like no ressurection or bots sticked to captain because these ideas will murder captain. We can make rambo unprofitable without revolution and destroying game.

You can try, but I can almost guarantee that whatever changes are made to the ai will not be sufficient in preventing rambo without a serious mechanic like leashing or limited lives that will undoubtedly and resolutely eliminate them from the mode. The player will always be smarter than the Ai, the player will always fight better than the Ai, and as long as they are allowed to go off alone and rambo, players will go off alone and rambo.

You say that you aren't a fan of the suggestions that I have repeated here. Please give me some of your suggestions that will instead prevent rambo and we can discuss whether or not they will have the desired impact that will encourage players to control their troops. @Gerius

 

[Gerius]

Ofc players will be better than AI but other player with AI army still could be better than 1 single rambo.

And my suggestion about how to make rambo not profitable is here - allow people using something like this great spear formation.

 

[Olaf The Cruel]

To insinuate that I want to selfishly change the game mechanics to suit my specific vision of the mode is insulting, and entirely without merit, especially when you consider how much of my free time I have spent trying to give back to the captain mode community by providing them with a series of fun events that they can look forward to participating in. I do not get to play in these tournaments, I do not host them for me, and I want to make sure that all participants have fun, and currently most players are not having fun as a direct result of rambo and the many exploits that are caused by it that result in the events becoming "skirmish with extra lives". Many of the community members have suggested several ways to improve and prevent the rambo issue and I have reiterated them many times in this thread. These suggestions are not mine, they are by far the most common and most popular suggested solutions that have been put forth by other community members and I just so happen to agree with them.

I did not insult you in anyway suggesting that you don't know this mode or how to play it. And what you have created for the community is far and beyond what anyone could expect from anyone. It is simply a disgrace that TW haven't rewarded you with the feedback badge long ago, while 80% of the skirmish community got one. I said Quote " I am not fighting to preserve this tactic, I don't have my own secret agenda, I don't want specific classes to be useless so I can do "my thing", I am the complete opposite of a ignorant. I am faithful to this mode, it's integrity " The topic here should not be personal skill or secret agendas, but how TW should fix this problem in the best way. Best way, not cheapest way. I don't mind waiting 10-15 updates more for them to fix this, if I knew we were moving forward with the mode. But to put AI on a leash won't fix anything. Players will work around it. We start with a distance of 20-30 meters, and with every update after that the distance will get shorter and shorter because it's not working.

When I am in the game, and getting caught in some situation where my units are locked in place, killed and humiliated, I don't see that as an "exploit" or "abuse", but part of the game. Then my mind is working on a counter or behavior, so that it will never happen again. I am ofc also looking at what other players do to fight it, two minds are always better than one. But IF there are no way to counter that situation, I do see it as a flaw in the game, balance or otherwise. Now, tell me how putting all units on a leash, will make the situation with Archers/cav better? If cav is getting forced to attack with full force, then archers will die so incredible fast, max 2-3 charges with cav and they are history. Right now I am actually glad that cav players haven't noticed how good cav AI actually is, and they rarely attack full force because of rambo. The next step is a nerf of cav then I guess....Nerf, Nerf, Nerf, restrictions and even more restrictions. What about we try a BUFF instead?

FIX ARCHERS AND RAMBO WILL BE GONE!