Discussion about cavalry balance and knock downs

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Forsee

Regular
I think eco system is ok as it is now, and is should work totally fine when all the classes would be balanced. Now you are usually choosing between 2 spawns with a good unit or 3 spawns with weaker one, and that is ok. The problem is, for example, that cheap cav class, that cost less than 150g is undisputed overwhelming compared to, for example, 160g heavy inf class. Cheap skirmisher classes have more ingame impact on their own than heavy inf, that costs more. When this class balancing would be done, it would fit that eco system perfectly (just as it was on previous patches).
 
I think eco system is ok as it is now, and is should work totally fine when all the classes would be balanced. Now you are usually choosing between 2 spawns with a good unit or 3 spawns with weaker one, and that is ok. The problem is, for example, that cheap cav class, that cost less than 150g is undisputed overwhelming compared to, for example, 160g heavy inf class. Cheap skirmisher classes have more ingame impact on their own than heavy inf, that costs more. When this class balancing would be done, it would fit that eco system perfectly (just as it was on previous patches).
Very good point. Inf in general is just not worth its gold. Would be interesting to see if a class limit would still be needed if heavy inf costs like 130g, light inf 100g, peasant 70g.
Alternative would be to simply nerf cav.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
If comp hasn't been playing with free classes how do you know inf wouldn't be picked and non-inf builds would win? My guess would be you would see inf heavy builds on some faction/maps, less inf on others.
 

TheBard

Salt Knight
Sergeant Knight at Arms
If comp hasn't been playing with free classes how do you know inf wouldn't be picked and non-inf builds would win? My guess would be you would see inf heavy builds on some faction/maps, less inf on others.
I'd like to see the limits drop, but with this new patch I don't see it coming anytime soon.
 

Forsee

Regular
Very good point. Inf in general is just not worth its gold. Would be interesting to see if a class limit would still be needed if heavy inf costs like 130g, light inf 100g, peasant 70g.
Alternative would be to simply nerf cav.
Then archers would be in a bad spot compared to other classes. On top of that I think dying 3-4 times from cav should be more frustrating than dying 2 times. IMO the best option is just to do something with cav.
 

Sral23

Recruit
Then archers would be in a bad spot compared to other classes. On top of that I think dying 3-4 times from cav should be more frustrating than dying 2 times. IMO the best option is just to do something with cav.
Especially you shouldnt complain about archers being bad :grin:
you dont even care if the inf has shields, just shoot above and oneshot them
 

Forsee

Regular
Especially you shouldnt complain about archers being bad :grin:
you dont even care if the inf has shields, just shoot above and oneshot them
Im saying they would be bad if inf could spawn 3-4 times cause these oneshots wouldn't do much if infantry could spawn over and over again
Honestly I dont like oneshots either, I'd prefer consistent 25-30 dmg body shots with higher frequency but right now it is just better to rely on a slow, but high damage longbow headshots cause it seems like shortbows are not finding their place in the meta. Anyway i'm going off topic, the only problem with archers I see now is that they are not countering cav, as they, in my opinion, should, and it causes in the fact that cav is dominating over both infantry and archers.

This thread and forum overall are supposed to be the place where players could be able to share their opinions and suggest balance improvements, and it is ok if someone disagrees with other's opinion, so please don't tell me what I should complain about and what I shouldn't, this is only my view and I am not insist that everyone have to consider these thoughts
 

hoonii

Sergeant
Then archers would be in a bad spot compared to other classes. On top of that I think dying 3-4 times from cav should be more frustrating than dying 2 times. IMO the best option is just to do something with cav.
As I've said I believe cav and archers are not op, it's just infantry being so weak other classes feel superior. Archers can very well deal with an incoming knight and fend him off, especially the palatine guard, xbows, khans guard and fianns.
 

Forsee

Regular
As I've said I believe cav and archers are not op, it's just infantry being so weak other classes feel superior. Archers can very well deal with an incoming knight and fend him off, especially the palatine guard, xbows, khans guard and fianns.
You can only consider is class overpowered or not comparing it with other classes. In a world where everything deal 1 damage, 2 damage sickle would be op
 

hoonii

Sergeant
You can only consider is class overpowered or not comparing it with other classes. In a world where everything deal 1 damage, 2 damage sickle would be op
you cant say im wrong tho
give infantry spears longer than lances that deals 100 damage with each stab to horses and fix glancing and see how cav start to lose against infantry
give all infantry full shields and bring back the laser accuracy javelins and see how an infantry will most of the time win against an archer
infantry just lacks the utility to deal with stuff and the ones they have dont work properly, this creates the feeling other classes are op while in reality if infantry received the same degree of buffs cav and ranged received this wouldn't even be a problem
 

Rangah

Sergeant Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
From my point of view, the main problem with cav is how tanky horses are in regards to melee - how little damage spear stabs deal after the horse has been reared, and how little damage sword/mace hits deal in any situation. Spears are ~90% reliable for rearing if used properly, though wonky **** still happens from time to time.

Throwing, archery, 2-handers, 1-handed axes too (mostly, if they hit the head) are capable of dealing proper damage to light horses, heavy horses - not so much. Heavy horses are way too hard to kill unless speed is involved in any situation, really.

The reason cav is super annoying, is that the meta game right now is staying right in the groupfight and stabbing people while facetanking any damage that's thrown at your horse with standard melee weapons. This is not okay and MUST be looked at.
 

FARIAS

Recruit
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I think cav is good atm, but i wish the lance (x) attack would do the same damage it did a few months ago.. right now it hardly kills someone when you hit the player/horse. Impaling someone should 100% the person not give half damage.
 

Firunien

Grandmaster Knight
I think cav is good atm, but i wish the lance (x) attack would do the same damage it did a few months ago.. right now it hardly kills someone when you hit the player/horse. Impaling someone should 100% the person not give half damage.
Its back at beeing strong, since 1.5.5, not totally broken in terms of damage but reasonable.
 

Hax.

Recruit
M&BWBWF&S
It is really exhausting and no fun at all playing a good siege game, pushing towards G when suddenly all the hard earned process becomes totaly irrelevant just because of the fact that the majority decides to take one of the thousands horses around and basicly make infantry and melee fighting redunant that way. Having horses inside castles or small keeps is a pain in the ass anyway and should be forbidded in some way.
 

Ikea Knight

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I am a little sad that the Kontos isn't really usable.

You don't have a shield and the weapon has an aweful handling which makes you glance soo much.

Simply adding a shield to might be helpful to make it viable similiar to the shields in shock units.

You could either use it as additional protection on the back or use it when you're out of a fight to avoid missle fire.
 

Tryerror

Sergeant
I am a little sad that the Kontos isn't really usable.

You don't have a shield and the weapon has an aweful handling which makes you glance soo much.

Simply adding a shield to might be helpful to make it viable similiar to the shields in shock units.

You could either use it as additional protection on the back or use it when you're out of a fight to avoid missle fire.

I am sorry, i have to disagree. The Kontos is amazing to kill of enemy Cav and Inf. That Dmg, Speed and Range makes it very strong, very good to handle if you are seasoned enough to auto think about range etc and makes it very powerfull. But the big downside why nobody uses it besides public games is: Archers. On Sturgia, they will just one shot you and the cataphract is to strong to give him up like that to Archer-Fire. Besides that Kontos is a great weapon to handle if you know how.
 
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