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Second, this is a small feature compared to everything else, and that you compare THIS gameplay to Watchdogs, saying they're the same while Watchdogs downgrade it's visible, whereas this gameplay:
I just cut all of your "bla bla", I´m not talking about graphics. I talk about stuff shown years ago and what we got...

The life shown in this settlement (4 years ago) is more than we got and will ever get as it seems. That´s my point...

Of course we do not know on what they´re working now, because they don´t speak to us (if they are not Mexxico), with is another minor issue...but we won´t even get the stuff they´ve described in their EA description in the next 6 months if you ask me...

If you enjoy the game, fine! I don´t.

I believe in overhaul mods. Now the modders got their tools. So in 1-2 years this game will be good for me (!), if you enjoy it right now, cool!
 
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First of all, while I know that some things were scrapped we do not know how they really worked and this video barely show it, maybe they'll add it later or maybe it was boring and it doesn't even make sense to have it.

Second, this is a small feature compared to everything else, and that you compare THIS gameplay to Watchdogs, saying they're the same while Watchdogs downgrade it's visible, whereas this gameplay: doesn't have cloth simulation, that has these outdated UI menus, that old lighting and weird animations, and has been clearly improved upon it's completely off the rails and unfair towards Taleworlds, not to say you're justyfing stealing money after you used a product for 400 hours. You dont buy a t shirt, use it every single day of your life and when you start disliking it, you go and make a mess to get a refund for the t shirt, this is dumb my friend

EDIT: Jesus your claim is so, so terrible, you are comparing that small feature to the whole game, go back and see the whole video, specially the combat part, there are no colors, the animations are stiff and outdated, everyone looks like a piece of wood when moving, if you're really saying the Bannerlord from now is a downgrade you should go to an oculist because your eyes are failing completely
+1
 
Your analogy makes no sense. A t-shirt immediately fulfills its obligation as a t-shirt. The producers of the T-Shirt don't have any other obligation once the shirt is sold to you. However, I would argue a game sold in EA is very different. The developers have an obligation to develop the game as advertised in the EA description or other such announcements, or at the very least, allow for refund periods if the development scope has changed. If the developers of an EA game fail to fulfill that obligation, refunds should be granted no matter how much time is spent in the game. A development promise is made, and a key part of the transaction. If certain features are abandoned without any explanation, again the promise of development has been broken and refunds should be available.
Yeah, and the game fullfilled the obligation of being a game, he played FOR 400 HOURS. Make the count, this dude spent 16 days of his life INSIDE a videogame, he literally spent 2 weeks of his life playing this game. 2 full weeks, 24 hours each day. How is that not a fullfilled duty dude, how, please there is no logical explanation
 
Your analogy makes no sense. A t-shirt immediately fulfills its obligation as a t-shirt. The producers of the T-Shirt don't have any other obligation once the shirt is sold to you. However, I would argue a game sold in EA is very different. The developers have an obligation to develop the game as advertised in the EA description or other such announcements, or at the very least, allow for refund periods if the development scope has changed. If the developers of an EA game fail to fulfill that obligation, refunds should be granted no matter how much time is spent in the game. A development promise is made, and a key part of the transaction. If certain features are abandoned without any explanation, again the promise of development has been broken and refunds should be available.

ok marx

I think in principle you're right, but the law hasn't caught up with video games as a medium yet, let alone the concept of Early Access (which was basically invented out of thin air a few years ago). Discussing what early access "should" be is impossible because there is no answer. This includes when people say "its early access, you know what you were getting into", because there is no standard and no accountability. It's just a silly marketing term. Most games are released piecemeal and with patches these days anyway, its more profitable.
 
Your analogy makes no sense. A t-shirt immediately fulfills its obligation as a t-shirt. The producers of the T-Shirt don't have any other obligation once the shirt is sold to you. However, I would argue a game sold in EA is very different. The developers have an obligation to develop the game as advertised in the EA description or other such announcements, or at the very least, allow for refund periods if the development scope has changed. If the developers of an EA game fail to fulfill that obligation, refunds should be granted no matter how much time is spent in the game. A development promise is made, and a key part of the transaction. If certain features are abandoned without any explanation, again the promise of development has been broken and refunds should be available.
Thats an exstreeme rule you are putting up, you could claim any minor change was a broken promise. Also theres a big difference in changing something before ea is even lauch that they talked about in a 4 year old dev video, before they restarted and made a new engine, you are showing content from the old engine. Also you cant say anything at all has been broken until ea is done, which is it not, plus im pretty sure that acording to the buy contract, a dev is allowed to make changes to their product during development, without it meaning you can refund.
 
Thats an exstreeme rule you are putting up, you could claim any minor change was a broken promise. Also theres a big difference in changing something before ea is even lauch that they talked about in a 4 year old dev video, before they restarted and made a new engine, you are showing content from the old engine. Also you cant say anything at all has been broken until ea is done, which is it not, plus im pretty sure that acording to the buy contract, a dev is allowed to make changes to their product during development, without it meaning you can refund.

As @Kentucky James VII stated, this isn't a matter of contract law. Its more an argument of principle. I don't think its extreme at all.

If a game is billing it self as a strategy game in EA, but turns out to be developed as an action RPG game, that's a clear breach in the development and refunds should be warranted. Not saying this applies to Bannerlord, although I think it could, just making a point. If developers decided to change the scope of game they already released on EA, there should be a refund period.

That seems right on its face. If I buy a game in EA, and they decide to cancel features, or lower the development scope half way through, that should also warrant a refund. How can you be against such common sense?
 
I just cut all of your "bla bla", I´m not talking about graphics. I talk about stuff shown years ago and what we got...

The life shown in this settlement (4 years ago) is more than we got and will ever get as it seems. That´s my point...

Of course we do not know on what they´re working now, because they don´t speak to us (if they are not Mexxico), with is another minor issue...but we won´t even get the stuff they´ve described in their EA description in the next 6 months if you ask me...

If you enjoy the game, fine! I don´t.

I believe in overhaul mods. Now the modders got their tools. So in 1-2 years this game will be good for me (!), if you enjoy it right now, cool!
"I'm skipping the part where you show how poor my arguments actually are"
Yeah ok dude. The life shown in this settlement? You haven't seen the video, or you just picked the part where a lot of people gathered which happened multiple times in my own playthroughs, I risk myself to say nothing has changed on towns and the same amount of NPCs spawn in towns. And weird you say you don't care about graphics since the only purpose these NPCs have in these towns is to stun visually (they really don't have much a dialog). In fact I couldn't see dancers or beggars walking in the video you quoted, you might want to check your facts mate. You're still looking for excuses to rant over the game, but you can't deny the improvement is MASSIVE from 2016 to 2020, seeing it now is overwhelming how much has changed, seriously I dare you to play with that horrible and dated UI, I'm sticking with the EA version thank you. Like I've said, it's ok if you don't enjoy the game or if you're expecting more. I am expecting more, I am waiting for February to not to spoil the game for myself and give the devs to work and hopefully to listen to the community feedback, that doesn't mean Im going full neglecting mode and don't give credit where credit is due.

As @Kentucky James VII stated, this isn't a matter of contract law. Its more an argument of principle. I don't think its extreme at all.



If a game is billing it self as a strategy game in EA, but turns out to be developed as an action RPG game, that's a clear breach in the development and refunds should be warranted. Not saying this applies to Bannerlord, although I think it could, just making a point. If developers decided to change the scope of game they already released on EA, there should be a refund period.



That seems right on its face. If I buy a game in EA, and they decide to cancel features, or lower the development scope half way through, that should also warrant a refund. How can you be against such common sense?
Damn Stew, you really are a lawyer, ready to read between the lines of this evil corporation that puts "Strategy" when it's actually not stategy, lying to it's poor customers, scamming a generation of gamers, even though you're kind of basing what strategy means into your own perception. I really don't know, but choosing what troops to upgrade, buying resources to maintain my army and checking what castle attack and how many troops should I have to do so does feel like strategizing to me, so I feel like that part of the big fat lie TW sold in steam isn't really a lie. You know, this makes me wonder which other things are also based on your biased perception, like cancelled features? You're not giving sources of that, neither for "lowering development scope".
 
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So I checked the Steam's refund policies again, and there is not a single exception for 2 hours / 14 days policy. This is clearly a lie, or a bug @Olympeus can't show us a proof too so yeah, begone attention seeker

oh and, now that your Steam account is clear I'm pretty sure we can report you for abusing bugs.
 
So I checked the Steam's refund policies again, and there is not a single exception for 2 hours / 14 days policy. This is clearly a lie, or a bug @Olympeus can't show us a proof too so yeah, begone attention seeker

oh and, now that your Steam account is clear I'm pretty sure we can report you for abusing bugs.
BEGINE THOT

Sorry had to do it
 
That's a nice tactic, if I ignore all the arguments that clearly prove me wrong I am not wrong!
Give up, MostBlunted and StewVader are always negative and dont accept when anybody writes something that dont fit with their view, not matter how much its based in fact or logic.
 
"I'm skipping the part where you show how poor my arguments actually are"
Yeah ok dude. The life shown in this settlement? You haven't seen the video, or you just picked the part where a lot of people gathered which happened multiple times in my own playthroughs, I risk myself to say nothing has changed on towns and the same amount of NPCs spawn in towns. And weird you say you don't care about graphics since the only purpose these NPCs have in these towns is to stun visually (they really don't have much a dialog). In fact I couldn't see dancers or beggars walking in the video you quoted, you might want to check your facts mate. You're still looking for excuses to rant over the game, but you can't deny the improvement is MASSIVE from 2016 to 2020, seeing it now is overwhelming how much has changed, seriously I dare you to play with that horrible and dated UI, I'm sticking with the EA version thank you. Like I've said, it's ok if you don't enjoy the game or if you're expecting more. I am expecting more, I am waiting for February to not to spoil the game for myself and give the devs to work and hopefully to listen to the community feedback, that doesn't mean Im going full neglecting mode and don't give credit where credit is due.


Damn Stew, you really are a lawyer, ready to read between the lines of this evil corporation that puts "Strategy" when it's actually not stategy, lying to it's poor customers, scamming a generation of gamers, even though you're kind of basing what strategy means into your own perception. I really don't know, but choosing what troops to upgrade, buying resources to maintain my army and checking what castle attack and how many troops should I have to do so does feel like strategizing to me, so I feel like that part of the big fat lie TW sold in steam isn't really a lie. You know, this makes me wonder which other things are also based on your biased perception, like cancelled features? You're not giving sources of that, neither for "lowering development scope".

I think the Bannerlord billing argument could be made, and it is very subjective.

Some of the other examples I provided were not intended to be applied to Bannerlord, but rather as general points, maybe we all could agree would warrant the refund of an EA game.

However, its hard to indicate the Bannerlord development scope or how its changed, since TW is so quiet and unwilling to communicate a development roadmap to us. A cynical side of me thinks its so they don't run into these issues when the game is release nearly identical to how it is now.
 
Guys just think about it, why post it? Just think about seriously and read between the lines...
I think this is (a desparate) attempt to push TW work harder or better in development.
BUT I have bad news for OP, it will not work...
 
Yeah, and the game fullfilled the obligation of being a game, he played FOR 400 HOURS. Make the count, this dude spent 16 days of his life INSIDE a videogame, he literally spent 2 weeks of his life playing this game. 2 full weeks, 24 hours each day. How is that not a fullfilled duty dude, how, please there is no logical explanation

I just want to point out, I have ~180 hours in the game at this point and I would say at least 1/3 of that has been spent reloading and replaying battles and parts of the game because of some bug / crash / screw-up / crappy AI issue / other thing that wasn't fun.

So, he has 500 hours but that doesn't mean he had 500 hours of fun. A lot of it may have been BS frustration and reloading from bugs.

That being said, I enjoy the game and would not ask for a refund, I think it's been a lot of fun and I expect the bugs to get fixed. Just I want to point out that a simple measure of hours-played doesn't equal hours-enjoyed.
 
Guys just think about it, why post it? Just think about seriously and read between the lines...
I think this is (a desparate) attempt to push TW work harder or better in development.
BUT I have bad news for OP, it will not work...
He is clearly lying too, it just hurts my soul to read this thread. He is probably sitting there like "OH! If I lie about refunding they will scare and work faster!!!" which again, clearly won't happen. The game sold really good and most of the players are happy lol. Only forum users are giving feedback, the others played had fun and stopped playing
 
I just want to point out, I have ~180 hours in the game at this point and I would say at least 1/3 of that has been spent reloading and replaying battles and parts of the game because of some bug / crash / screw-up / crappy AI issue / other thing that wasn't fun.

So, he has 500 hours but that doesn't mean he had 500 hours of fun. A lot of it may have been BS frustration and reloading from bugs.

That being said, I enjoy the game and would not ask for a refund, I think it's been a lot of fun. Just I want to point out that a simple measure of hours-played doesn't equal hours-enjoyed.
Depends on settings if you play at higher graphics knowing your computer cant handle it will cause more crashes and he would have bought the game when it was the most stable and crashes were rare around 2 months ago where most crashes were isolated to specific towns and areas so by the time he bought it it would mean he has got atleast 400 hours of full gameplay

He is clearly lying too, it just hurts my soul to read this thread. He is probably sitting there like "OH! If I lie about refunding they will scare and work faster!!!" which again, clearly won't happen. The game sold really good and most of the players are happy lol. Only forum users are giving feedback, the others played had fun and stopped playing
This is true i have once myself made a few games mostly working on code and art design and been part of 1 company in the last 3 years even mass refunds will not increase the pace unless there is increased pay and it would only cause more half ass **** since the devs will not have enough time to do one thing knowing they have to basically code like sonic runs
 
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