Devs and "Community" Employees Are Averaging Less than 1 Post Per Day - Where Is The Engagement?

[Lord Irontoe]

Freeman, Zombiest Adventures and Girls' Civilization. And that's just the bottom 10%!

There's another 90%? Where?

I'd be very willing to bite my tongue and give Bannerlord a million 100% reviews if it would convince the game industry that this is a profitable genre that they should all get in on. I think Taleworlds gave it their best shot and their best is at most "good enough". Any chance of a truly great version of this game formula will probably have to come from somewhere else.

 

[SpartanBG]

How long was the misleading statement up on the Steam page before being taken down?

I was actually punished for pasting that statement so I can say its still available 2 years later

 

[SpartanBG]

There's another 90%? Where?

I'd be very willing to bite my tongue and give Bannerlord a million 100% reviews if it would convince the game industry that this is a profitable genre that they should all get in on. I think Taleworlds gave it their best shot and their best is at most "good enough". Any chance of a truly great version of this game formula will probably have to come from somewhere else.

if someone ever make a better version of this vision, their game will be DA BOMB!
But in all honesty the guy who gave those games just pissed on me

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

Girls' Civilization.

Consumers of this game are definitely man of culture.

 

[BRAZZDA]

in better companies

 

[Phantom425]

Hey, unrelated but have you ever heard of this thing called a ****ing analogy??

No, what is it? Could you tell me?

Blah blah blah and lots of strawman arguments again. I'm not saying people can't play Call of Duty or that they can't play games for fun. I'm saying if they think it's a good quality product, they're stupid, because Activision Blizzard just slaps a different coat of paint on the exact same thing (but slightly worse) every two years and charges full price for it.

You're delusional. If you think that people can't think that CoD is a quality product for what they wanted that's actually ****ing absurd. If someone is looking for a mindless FPS game to play with their friends, then CoD is something that they may want and be an actual quality product for them. Thinking less of people because of that is kinda cringe.

Why are you using analogies and then instantly playing dumb when I use a better analogy?

Because with your totally worse analogy you're the one commissioning it. You didn't commission Bannerlord, did you? Since both of our analogies are ****, how about this one for old times sake.

Artist makes albums, sells millions.

Artist makes second album, sells millions, but doesn't have the xylophone that people wanted from the first. In an interview years before release they talked about adding in xylophone, but things changed as they made the album. They get deserved pushback for not adding in that xylophone, but does that mean they can't explore what else they want to add? What about Marimba? Or Vibraphones? Or the wonderful Glockenspiel?

They ****ed up, but that doesn't mean they can't add whatever they want to the product.

Taleworlds took our money while saying they were going to use that money to make (X game) to our expectations. Tell me that I'm wrong. You can't, because I'm right.

Taleworlds took your money for an Early Access game, a game that they set out to make. There are things that have not been included in the game that were spoken about in previous dev blogs, namely criminal enterprise, and that should be something they strive to add. All that being said, you don't get to dictate what they add to the game. TW can look at community feedback and if they think that it is something that they will want to add, they have the freedom to add it. It is actually completely ****ing insane that you even had the ****ing gall to say "They are adding stuff no one wanted". Do you think you get to actually dictate what goes in? Do you think that they don't get to add what they please into the product that they are making? There are things that I want added, but I can never actually say they need to add them because what I want is different then what someone else wants.

This entitlement that you and the rest of this forum has developed is actually ****ing absurd. They need to give a working game, no real bugs, and that's basically it in terms of obligations. Have they reached that yet? No, but that doesn't mean they can't add something to their own ****ing game that they want to. Game developers don't just bow to what the community wants, and I'm ****ing astounded you think that.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

Just started playing warband few days ago, I decided which girl I wanna marry but I could not even speak with her, I needed to gain her father friendship to be considered as a groom or be accepted as vassal and being able to attend a feast and try to seduce her. After few game time weeks I am still trying to reach her ...

The same stuff in banner lord is like, 'I have 10k let's marry with the king's daughter, 5 minutes later Done!!!!'.

The quality of Bannerlord for mindless people at its finest.

 

[Phantom425]

The quality of Bannerlord for mindless people at its finest.

Like me

 

[JunKeteer]

This entitlement that you and the rest of this forum has developed is actually ****ing absurd. They need to give a working game, no real bugs, and that's basically it in terms of obligations. Have they reached that yet? No, but that doesn't mean they can't add something to their own ****ing game that they want to. Game developers don't just bow to what the community wants, and I'm ****ing astounded you think that.

The issue is what a 'working' game is, from what they advised, what each individual player expects, and to what it is now. From what most players (at least in this forum) see, it doesn't appear to be 'working' though TW does (hence the official release). They can add and fix and as they should or as is their prerogative but making it an official release as they have, I see it them being 'satisfied' with it's current iteration as a base game.

It's not 'entitlement' (though some feel that way) but they did open the game up as EA for over 2+ years but the way that developed and how most feedback returned, might as well have not done it as an EA model.
At least those that played during the EA phase (myself included), got that 'soft' opening to its current release where it's just a sad disappointment of the missed potential at this point.

 

[TurkishEconomy]

What doesn't make sense to me is that the community members/employees are actually being paid by TW. They're on payroll for 40 hours a week, and I assume have some job expectations/deliverables.

I just don't know how TW leadership can justify this? There's daily threads and posts being made, questions being asked. They're hardly interacting with this forum/community, which is owned by the company.

 

[Phantom425]

It's not 'entitlement'

The entitlement I'm talking about is expecting TW to add all that you want and they can't add what they want to their own game. There are things that I want added to TW, but if I said those should be added now before what TW thinks needs to be added to their own product I would be entitled.

 

[JunKeteer]

The entitlement I'm talking about is expecting TW to add all that you want and they can't add what they want to their own game. There are things that I want added to TW, but if I said those should be added now before what TW thinks needs to be added to their own product I would be entitled.

Which is why I'm saying TW did themselves a disservice (regardless what the current subjective opinions are on the release) by releasing it as an EA. IMO, would've preferred they just did a full release without the EA. Would've bought it anyways in my case, at least then I could drop the game after a few short hours (due to it's current same issues) and maybe come back 2+years from now where it'll be at an 'acceptable' state + stable set of mods.

Unfortunately, I got the EA, and already experienced that 2+years of bs; so is a general 'slap in the face' disappointment that they still went ahead with the release at its current state, despite the feedback given from a majority of players over the past 2+ years.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

The entitlement I'm talking about is expecting TW to add all that you want and they can't add what they want to their own game.

Go on fighting "the entitlement" you created in your head. I do not expect anyone who gave their constructive criticism especially early on EA living such a reality. I am sure fivebucks also not expecting such thing to happen.

You try to whiteknight TW so hard that you create a version of the forum in your head and then fight that version which does not exist in reality.

 

[danEN]

 

[FireBlazinCandy]

how do you define 2 years of progression. I'm part of the IT sector thou in banking, do you think coding and making stuff is easy. I've even seen people calling some bug fixes minor changes when some bug fixes can include changes in hundreds and thousand of lines of code.

Also it maybe only me but i'll just say the most factor changes at least for me - Game is preforming 100x better. AI is not as clunky as it used to be. Some futures were added.
Yes i do think its incomplete and that is why i hope they will continue improving. But saying they haven't done anything for the last two years sounds plain ignorant to me.

Congratulations in your job? That has nothing to do with my comment, at all.

I didn't say they didn't do anything over the last two years chap. Don't put words in people's mouth and then try call them out for it.

I was implying the work they did do was not very progressive. As you stated yourself, the game runs a lot smoother than on release. Exactly my point, it was mostly just tinkering with the code/backend stuff over and over. This kind of stuff should have been done mostly before EA, and DEFINITELY before the final bloody release of the game. But here we are, still tinkering with the backend, and still missing a plethora of features and mechanics.

I would define over two years of progression where the game still isnt finished - where TW stated the game would finished in one year - not very progressed.

 

[Apocal]

Bro tell me a Mount and blade style game, please ! I want to try all of them

Basically M&B clones:
Free Company VR
Tales of Glory
Kingdoms
The Viking Way

The ones that go for a different theme:
Kenshi
Freeman: Guerrilla Warfare

Same theme but dump part of the core M&B experience (first person battles):
Battle Brothers
Glorious Companions

Different theme and dump part of the core M&B experience, but still recognizably inspired by M&B:
Starsector

 

[five bucks]

You're delusional. If you think that people can't think that CoD is a quality product for what they wanted that's actually ****ing absurd. If someone is looking for a mindless FPS game to play with their friends, then CoD is something that they may want and be an actual quality product for them. Thinking less of people because of that is kinda cringe.

Since I'm not interested in arguing with you about something any sensible person knows to be correct, I already said substitute any game series you want.
So you are intentionally ignoring the ACTUAL POINT of this tangent, which is that bad game series exist yet people still buy them.

At this point I totally agree with other people who have said in the past you're just looking for an excuse to be contrarian and argue.

Because with your totally worse analogy you're the one commissioning it. You didn't commission Bannerlord, did you?

If you want the analogy to be closer so you stop ****ing nitpicking, it can be a block of flats with multiple buyers. What I said was that the company offered to make something to the expectations of the user, and received money to do so, and that is what happened with Bannerlord.

So: stop ****ing around with minor details and actually answer the point of it.

Would it be considered appropriate in other industries for a company to delay a task they've been pre-paid to do, in favour of doing something else they feel like? Yes or no.

Artist makes albums, sells millions.

Artist makes second album, sells millions, but doesn't have the xylophone that people wanted from the first. In an interview years before release they talked about adding in xylophone, but things changed as they made the album. They get deserved pushback for not adding in that xylophone, but does that mean they can't explore what else they want to add? What about Marimba? Or Vibraphones? Or the wonderful Glockenspiel?

As already said, albums don't work as an analogy because they are not pre-paid. But if I and a group or other people had paid someone to make an album with a special instrument, and they said they would, then yes they should do that.

Taleworlds took your money

There's the key part that makes the rest of the sentence irrelevant. If they take our money and tell us they will do something, they should do it ASAP.

Do you think you get to actually dictate what goes in?

I think when they said they will do something and got money to do so, they should not delay the things people actually paid for in order to **** around doing what they like. Any reasonable person would agree with this statement for any other industry. You cannot refute this which is why you keep talking about other nonsense and not addressing this core point.

 

[five bucks]

How long was the misleading statement up on the Steam page before being taken down?

Missed this, sorry: it was up for 2 years. Only removed post-release.

 

[Phantom425]

So you are intentionally ignoring the ACTUAL POINT of this tangent, which is that bad game series exist yet people still buy them.

The point is you think of someone as being lesser because they are playing a product that you think is lesser. Its elitist. Simple as.

So: stop ****ing around with minor details and actually answer the point of it.

Except that literally changes the entire ****ing point, doesn't it. You didn't order this product to be made, TW is making it and selling it to other people. The people buying it literally have no control over its creation.

It is the artists product, it is their choice as to what goes into it. Whether its a painting, whether its an album, whether its a house. It is entirely their decision what gets into the game and what doesn't. There have been countless examples of games that have had content been cut, the biggest of which being Bioshock: Infinite, and Bannerlords is the same.

The main that I disagreed with however many posts ago was the idea that TW can't add anything that the community doesn't want. Its their game, they can literally add whatever the **** they wanted to it. If they wanted to add guns, they can add guns, if they wanted to add Dickplomacy, then it gets added. You don't get to dictate what gets added, nor really the community. Are there things that should be added, yes. Criminal elements being the largest that anyone can point to. However they can still add whatever they want in the meantime. Not the entire dev team will work on one part of it.

 

[Phantom425]

Taleworlds advertised (Gamescon trailers / EA description) a version of a game that they haven´t delivered and that is still missing features that were featured in the EA description.

So I would say, false advertising and delivering an incomplete product. Sure people can still enjoy it, I also do it (with a lot of mods). But it´s still an incomplete version, has bugs and is missing a lot of stuff that was shown years ago.

Fundamentally I agree with that, what I didn't is the attitude that they can't add anything else that wasn't in those 10 years of development hell. That is the core disagreement that I've had. TW should add Criminal Enterprise, but that doesn't mean they can also add other things to their own game that they want to. Almost every single developer overpromises, that isn't something that is unique in this instance. The Valheim devs have been getting **** about it for a good year now, Kingdom Come got pushback for not having massive battles, this is just another instance of it. Hell, even NMS and their own redemption arc. As they develop the game they are still allowed to add things that didn't make the final pack.