SP - General Thrust Spears with Shield Up

[MightyMidgit]

This is a common reason for the shield/spear combination in history. While holding up a shield to defend yourself, you can thrust the spear forward. This should be implemented in the game. When blocking to the left, you can thrust on the right. When blocking low, you can thrust high. Let the damage be reduced for balancing purposes if needed. Right now, spears are the worst weapon in a melee. 9/10 times, a sword/axe/mace with a shield will beat a spear with a shield because spears are easy to dodge, only being able to thrust and the damage being lower if you cannot fully extend the thrust. This could help balance that.

GIVE US OUR PHALANX WALLS!

Edit: Also, implement anchoring lances when on foot to deal couched lance damage against a cavalry charge (instantly killing the horse most of the time if the horse was moving fast enough). All troop command mods in Warband had this as an option, and it prevented cavalry from destroying a shield wall. Once the damage was dealt to the first horse, the stance broke for the unit that dealt the damage, so the next horse could plow through, so it was balanced. It made things more dynamic in combat, because cavalry was just way too OP late game.

 

[MisterDanny8]

While yes it would be much more realistic and make spears better. it would likely make combat boring and people would complain a lot. You have to sacrifice some realism for balance and fun

 

[MightyMidgit]

While yes it would be much more realistic and make spears better. it would likely make combat boring and people would complain a lot. You have to sacrifice some realism for balance and fun

In a 1v1 with a shield/spear vs a shield/spear, maybe. But in a large battle or arena or multiplayer, it could make combat more dynamic. And shields don't cover the entire body; you can still hit the other person if you avoid the shield. You would need to rely on your team or maneuver your troops. It would make things more skill-based. Spears need something to make them better, and a realistic combo of shield/spear is a great way to do it! Plus, it would make axes a hard counter for shield/spear due to their extra damage against shields.

Lastly, people have been asking for ways to slow down and make war more epic. This is a way to do it.

 

[donder172]

This does sound interesting.

 

[h1zchan]

As i wrote elsewhere in the forum the way shields work in mnb is an inaccurate representation of how shields actually work in real life. Currently in mnb shields only block when you hold the block button.

In real life larger shields primarily provide protection by just being there. Holding your shield by your side in a ready stance like shown in this picture

already denies most attacks coming from your leftside. And you can maintain this posture while swinging or thrusting with your sword, meaning if the opponent wants to hit you he has to do a thrust, a vertical downward swing, a reverse oberhau from his left, or maybe an unterhau from his left, but definitely not a low mittelhau from his right side. You reduce your opponent's options by your simple act of carrying a shield.

In real life shields also aren't magical force fields that block everything from head to toe when you raise them up to cover your face as your legs woyld then become vulnerable.

Long stories short my point is shields in mnb should provide passive protection against low angle right swings, but parrying with shield should be directional. This way spears won't be completely useless against anyone who has a shield, whereas currently shields block everything from head to toe. In order to further prevent shields from becoming too op the idle standing animation could be set to shield dropping low in a relaxed position like in Warband, providing minimal coverage. The side on openward stance depicted above should only activate when walking or when you hold down your attack button to get ready to perform a swing or a thrust. And when thrusting with spears the shield should cover the torso leaving only the head and the legs vulnerable as depicted on bronze age greek vases. That way fights between spear formations will last much longer as they do in real life.

 

[Wasdefg123]

I agree but it would break multiplayer

 

[h1zchan]

also imo multiplayer maps should come in two categories battle and duel. In battl maps all weapons should be made available. In town maps only swords knifes sticks and bucklers. That way players who enjoy skill blocking can flock to town maps whereas players who enjoy formation fighting with large shields can go to battle maps.

 

[Yangbang]

Is think it be cool and it should be implemented as a attack animation for all thrusting weapons, spears and swords alike.

 

[Ackdam]

While yes it would be much more realistic and make spears better. it would likely make combat boring and people would complain a lot. You have to sacrifice some realism for balance and fun

Memories of 1v1 tournament with spear and shield...

Yeah... If they change this they would need to change the way spears are used or nix them completely in tournament 1v1s. They would also need to implement accurate methods to get around the shields like:

• The hooking capabilities of weapons like the nordic ax
• Bring back the heavy maul
• Make feet a viable target
• Incendiaries
• Breakable weapons
• Inability, or reduced ability, to hit a target who gets too close (offset by shield bash, which can be offset by mob combat, which can be offset by a shield wall, which can be offset by flanking, which can be offset by a phalanx, etc.)

 

[Ackdam]

Long stories short my point is shields in mnb should provide passive protection against low angle right swings, but parrying with shield should be directional.

I thought they did passively block. I know they do for arrows, and I am pretty sure my melee weapon has glanced off of a shield that wasn't actively blocking before. They may need to adjust the hitbox of the shield though as the result seems dependant on where you hit it.

 

[Joseef]

This is a common reason for the shield/spear combination in history. While holding up a shield to defend yourself, you can thrust the spear forward. This should be implemented in the game. When blocking to the left, you can thrust on the right. When blocking low, you can thrust high. Let the damage be reduced for balancing purposes if needed. Right now, spears are the worst weapon in a melee. 9/10 times, a sword/axe/mace with a shield will beat a spear with a shield because spears are easy to dodge, only being able to thrust and the damage being lower if you cannot fully extend the thrust. This could help balance that.

GIVE US OUR PHALANX WALLS!

+1 this would be great.

 

[h1zchan]

I thought they did passively block. I know they do for arrows, and I am pretty sure my melee weapon has glanced off of a shield that wasn't actively blocking before. They may need to adjust the hitbox of the shield though as the result seems dependant on where you hit it.

Only shields on back mitigate melee damage. Shield held in the hand passively block arrows but not melee attacks

 

[Memento]

well also if you eqqip a pike that only has the 2 handed only property,you should enable counce lance against anti cav purposes

 

[Kristjan108]

I have to agree with spears needing some sort of buff as they are currently worthless when compared to any other weapon in an infantry fight.
Though I don't think being able to thrust while blocking is the way to do it.

 

[MightyMidgit]

well also if you eqqip a pike that only has the 2 handed only property,you should enable counce lance against anti cav purposes

I loved this in Warband mods, achoring lances when on foot (and ording your troops to) to deal couched lance damage against charging cavalry. It only make sense.