[thoughts] Lack of incentive will kill this game within a few months after it...

[Teala]

Lack of incentive will kill this game within a few months after it goes live.  I have been testing and playing and I love the game, but it lacks depth and incentive to keep playing after a time and it'll grow stale(the multiplayer game that is).    There has to be a goal - something for players to achieve to keep them coming back to the game.  Just logging in and whacking each other with swords and pointy sticks is not enough.  Once a player attains a certain level of skill they'll migrate away from the game and go back to playing games like CoD and BF2 or some other MMORPG.  Why?  Nothing to keep them playing.  In those other games their is ranking systems, the ability to unlock new weapons and skills and such. 

What kind of plans do the developers have in mind to keep people playing over the long haul?

Will there be more maps than we currently have?(even this may not be enough to keep people playing for months and months at a time).

This game has so much potential to be more than just a, sign on to server, hack and slash a few people, and sign off ad nauseum.  I can see reviews of this game 6 months out from various gaming sights repeating what they said in the reviews for the original Mount and Blade - the game doesn't have enough depth.  I fear this maybe the case once again...at least for the multiplayer aspect.

This is just my thoughts and my opinion. 

 

[SockMonkeh]

For the love of god, no unlocks. Worst thing to happen to modern gaming.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

In those other games their is ranking systems, the ability to unlock new weapons and skills and such. 

You mean, grinding?

The most mindless and horrid feature that ever struck games?

The moment I see that, I'm out. If MnB wants to compete in grinding, that's all ok, I'll pick WoW in that case.

 

[Teala]

For the love of god, no unlocks. Worst thing to happen to modern gaming.

I agree, but what else can the developers do to keep players coming back for more? 

 

[SockMonkeh]

Make a fun game? People are still playing the **** out of Counter-Strike and that doesn't have any unlocks. Mount & Blade is basically a medieval Counter-Strike.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

This is the most addictive game in the world.  (I'm fairly certain Taleworlds is using some sort of illegal subliminal messaging or something)  Petty competition for stats is exactly the thing that would drive me away from any other game.

 

[silentdawn]

Heres a little piece on unlock and what not that shows how I feel on about the subject. Its by another indie developer which I recommend you check out as well.

If people want to go play games with achievements, unlocks, levels and grinding I say let them. I do not what this to become one of those games.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

For the love of god, no unlocks. Worst thing to happen to modern gaming.

I agree, but what else can the developers do to keep players coming back for more?

You have a weird view that game should be immortal, and that it's a good thing if it's played 24/7 for 10 years. It's not.

What will keep the players coming back is fun factor. That should be it, and only that. The moment there is some sort of grinding that is aimed at attracting zombies and producing zombies, that moment the game dies. It keeps people, but game dies. MMORPGs invented grinding because of their monthly fee. MnB has none.

Take a look at Counterstrike, people still play that. A lot of them. And, personally I don't think counter-strike is more advanced than MnB multiplayer (bugs aside). I'd say MnB is more sophisticated and in-depth game. And it's still developing.


Also, what's not mentioned - Guild Wars. That game had so little grinding (vs fun factor). In the beginning, it didn't even have all those titles and stuff it has now. And people played it. They played PvP like RA or TA that had no rewards in itself. And lots of people played it. They played PvE because of fun, creativity, and story. Later, they introduced a lot of grinding because they saw people like doing it. So now the game is full of zombies who are not playing the game anymore or having fun, but working (literary working) on getting titles by mindlessly repeating stuff. I don't want that.

 

[Teala]

I'm not talking petty stats or unlocks, just more depth.  Look...I am just giving my thoughts.  The game is addictive up to a point.  Just as CS is and MW and BF2.  But in regards to those games they have something this game needs and whether you agree or not - time and time again players go to where the can achieve.  Look I love this game, but from my experience I see it once again being played for a bit by many a gamer and then left to collect dust.  Having conversed with many former players of this game on various gaming forums they love it, they think the combat is awesome...but they said they got bored to tears playing because it just didn't have enough depth.  I have even gone so far as to ask them what would make the game better? All agree the multi player is a good step in the right direction, but if all you do is sign onto a server and kill a few players and gain nothing from it in the long run there is nothing to keep them playing.

Again I am trying to help the game not hurt it.  I think this is a crucial topic that needs discussed.  It would be cool to hear what other players think needs to be done to keep the game going after it goes live.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

What you can achieve in this game is reputation and personal pride in personal skill.  People respect test because he proves time and again that he's a formidable fighter, not because he's got a special title or a big bag-o'-stats.

A number does not accurately reflect skill, nor does a title/award mean that the owner deserves it.

 

[inox_ionizer]

Well said. And to me, it's more fun to win when I know I won because of skill, as opposed to better equipment and stats.

 

[Arch3r]

You forgot one very important thing mate...I'm captain Jack Sparrow being player made mod's...

 

[HTAPAWASO]

I agree that there needs to be some sense of achievement in a game to keep it interesting.

But that doesn't have to come in the form of unlocks, or stats, or anything that can be accurately measured - I believe that a game which is difficult (or impossible) to master has this same sort of replayability, because you want to be 'the best' and all that crap.



In MMOs, people don't grind away mindlessly for hours on end for 'fun', they do so because they want to show all the other bastards that play who's boss.

Mount and Blade can work in a similar way, except instead of making more gold or killing more turtles or whatever, you just get better at playing and improve your skills, and how long it takes to become 'perfect' at the game is determined by the complexity and intricacy of the game mechanics.


So skill-based gameplay (like manual blocking for instance) is what keeps people coming back to these sort of games. Add more mechanics like that (a good example that was added recently is the new block-crushing method) and people will want to perfect them.

 

[CryptoCactus]

Just logging in and whacking each other with swords and pointy sticks is not enough.

I disagree. Logging in and whacking each other with swords and pointy sticks is nearly as addictive as crack cocaine.

I played WoW for a while. I did. And it was fairly entertaining. But I tell you, no amount of GRINDAN GRINDAN GRINDAN ever made me feel as elated as, say, defeating a badass player in a duel, or holding off a horde of angry Nords with just two guys with crossbows and shortswords.




That said, I wouldn't be opposed to some sort of "career stats", showing your total number of kills, assists, dehorsings, that sort of thing, along with time played. Just because it'd be interesting, and it'd give me some personal pride to know I've killed 8.2 gajillion horses, or whatever.  But we absolutely should not get ZOMG 1337 TITALS or +5 Great Axes of Doom for anything we do. We should get nothing but a thousand gold at the start of a match, just like it is now. The rest we must accomplish with quick wit, tactics, and testicles (or ovaries where applicable) of steel.

EDIT: Careers stats that are invisible to anyone but ourselves, unless we choose to display them publicly.

 

[Yoshi Murasaki]

Again I am trying to help the game not hurt it.

No, you're actually trying to hurt it. You're trying to make this more similiar to WoW. To prove your point, you mention how Wow players are not attracted to this game for long because of lack of grind, and they go back to Wow. That's your argumentative line. I could do the same, by mentioning this game has no porn, and no children, and it will not be interesting to pedophiles, so how can we improve the game?

I don't want this game to attract pedophiles, so naturally I am not interested in having naked children in it.

In a same way, I am not interested to attract grinders to this game for a sacred goal of increasing game population. You goal may be to increase game population, mine isn't. My goal is to have a fun and enjoyable game.


And let me repeat it if it isn't clear - lowest common denominator (known as mindless grind, because no matter how retarded you are you can still do it if you have time) is not something that is good for any game.

So skill-based gameplay (like manual blocking for instance) is what keeps people coming back to these sort of games. Add more mechanics like that

Exactly. But that's completely opposite of how the original poster imagined it.

 

[Yellonet]

I agree with the spirit of this, we need something that keeps players coming back. For me this is spelled realism and balance. Adding more realism in all areas of the game will give it more depth, equally important is getting factions and maps that are very very well balanced, there should not even be room for a discussion about best or worst faction.

Attracting new players
Realistic medieval combat between two teams of players should be what sets this game apart from others and draws in new players.

Keeping people playing
Fine tuned balance and depth of gameplay in all game areas is what keeps people playing, think Counter Strike or Star Craft, those are games that pretty much have perfect balance while still having different equipment for the "factions" and also the maps are very well thought out to give both teams equal opportunity to win.

About unlockable
Unlockables should not come down on Calradia as unlockables attracts its own bunch of misfits.
Basically it draws out the worst in people, they will only play for the unlockables and nothing else, it won't be the incentive for good team play, but the ultimate goal - may nothing stand in their way.
Unlockables really only attracts exploiters, BF2 is a perfect example of this.

 

[silentdawn]

Depth is having a lot of things to do that are fun. Depth is having many different choices on how you play the game. Depth is game modes, unit classes, weapon choices, maps, tactics ect.
Achievements and unlocks are not depth.
Say you go and kill five guys, Thats cool. Making it so when I do so I get a immersion breaking message saying I kill 5 guys adds nothing but a cheap attempt to fool the player that he gets something for his accomplishments. But they don't, You get nothing.

Until games start dispensing real cookies for achievements I'm going to pass.

 

[EdwardWellcraft]

You forgot one very important thing mate...I'm captain Jack Sparrow being player made mod's...

Problem is mods fracture a community as much as they keep it running. I can foresee a time when no servers run the native multiplayer, or only a small handful do. Every mod is going to have a nice little server set aside for it. The game is definitely going to need some kind of direct download method. If people have to close the game, find the mod, and manually install the mod every time they log onto a different server the game is only going to have the hardcore players playing.

For a multiplayer game, where people's game files need to be the same, a **** ton of mods is not necessarily a good thing. It's not a bad thing either, it just has it's limits is all.

For increasing survivability of the game, at the very least achievements could be logged. Kicking someone off a building as a kill, killing a certain number of people, certain numbers of headshots, and so on. These things definitely help games like L4D and TF2, and I don't see why they wouldn't work with Mount and Blade. Especially as Mount and Blade is also distributed on Steam, I would think taking advantage of Steam achievements and stat logging would be a good thing.

Also, log everything possible., and let people see everything. How many kills they get, how many horses they slay(maybe even divide it into ridden and riderless horses, for the lols) how many times you've played each map, how long you've spent using certain weapons and armor, what weapons you've gotten the most kills with, what factions you play against the most and least, how many castles you've captured, how many times you've been master of the field, how many times you've kicked people. People like stats just so they can see what they've done. It's amusing to look back and see what patterns emerge in your playstyle. If you see you've killed several hundred riderless horses, that suddenly adds some comedy to the game. Something you can joke about, something tangible you can talk about and compare, but not something that will interfere with gameplay.

Edit: Also, none of this should be in the game itself. No in game messages, just a stats page you can look at when not playing. No unlockables or anything like that either. Just lots of stats and info on how you've been playing.

 

[Teala]

Well I was thinking of maybe they could find some way to track players points, kills, and what not and maybe have tournament play.  Like they did in the middle ages or better yet - as has been suggested many times campaign games where players choose sides and the nplay a campaign against other players to control Calradia.  Once one team wins, the map is reset and it starts all over again.  The stats and achievements for those teams would be tracked.  That is what I am thinking of.  Bring more to the table other than just maps where people log on and whack one another.  Having tournaments in a tournament setting or campaign play would add some serious depth to this game and make people wish to compete and get better and better.

 

[Wonderboy2402]

Well, I think they could implement some sort of stat tracking or ranking. Like "Most kills in a round", headshots, etc.  Such a feature is always appreaciated by the FPS crowd.

I definitely do NOT want unlocked that affect gameplay. Like +3 to stats, weapon unlocks, classes... because, like counterstrike, the combat needs to be skill versus skill as closely as possibe. But I don't see why you couldn't do clothing unlocks, banners/standards/flags, titles... items that signify a calbier of player or something about that player.

Overall, Warband needs to have plenty of depth... I think now it has a good foundation, but the combat still needs more refinement. There needs to be more attacks then swings and thrusts. I think if the combat is further enriched the online community will grow to a level similar to Counterstrike.