Spears and potential to improve them

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Edalwulf Bergmann

Edalwulf Bergmann

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Why are spears being held incorrectly by every model? They're always held in the center of the shaft in-game. Why can't we be allowed to use the full length of spears?
I'd also like it if spears couldn't do much of any damage with the haft and that the spear-head always had a hitbox. Having A.I. act more properly with spears would also be great eventually.

Some examples of spear fighting from Lindybeig

 
Spears are really bad right now, but i think the easiest solution to fix them is to just make spears ignore friendly collision, would be the best way to simulate a mass spear formation like phalanx where the spears from 4 rows away are poking enemies in the front lines right now the AI can barely attack with spears since they collide so easily with everything around them cancelling the attacks..
 
luisedgm said:
Spears are really bad right now, but i think the easiest solution to fix them is to just make spears ignore friendly collision, would be the best way to simulate a mass spear formation like phalanx where the spears from 4 rows away are poking enemies in the front lines right now the AI can barely attack with spears since they collide so easily with everything around them cancelling the attacks..
Click to expand...
They should ignore friendly collision from BEHIND only. Wouldn't be fun to have spears stabbing you through a man's stomach
 
The problem is the wonky way combat works in general. Everything needs a good distance after you wind back to travel and do damage, since spears require you thrust and thrust only anything hugging your face completely negates the spear. And face hugging is the name of the game!! even if in real life that would be a gut full of spear tip....
 
Spears on foot are really bad right now.
Without shield they are little better(still bad) but shield-less infantry is mostly dead before contact.
They should be decent cheap weapon but instead theya re barely usable on foot against infantry and not very useful against cavalry(two handers and javelins are much better anti cav weapons that spears).
They little better on horse as they give some reach and accuracy to riders but on foot they are bad. Like really bad.
 
Edalwulf Bergmann said:
Why are spears being held incorrectly by every model? They're always held in the center of the shaft in-game. Why can't we be allowed to use the full length of spears?
I'd also like it if spears couldn't do much of any damage with the haft and that the spear-head always had a hitbox. Having A.I. act more properly with spears would also be great eventually.

Some examples of spear fighting from Lindybeig

Click to expand...

every culture used the spear differently from kung fu chinise to anti camel arabs to anti elephant infantry Indians .........etc
there is no right way for it
there is your way ----- and the other way!
 
Before the recent smithing fix I accidentally created a spear that had like 110+ thrust speed.

It made the spear infinitely more useful as I was then basically able to lock a single AI into blocking, or could stab around in a 1v2+ while backpedalling to gain some space. It wasn't super OP or anything imo, but nicely useful. Making thrust-only polearms much faster across the board (while maybe tweaking the damage) could be a quick & dirty balancing fix. Then maybe some special mechanics later.
 
bigbalzzz said:
there are multiaple polearms that are fast in the game some are even the most op weapons...
Click to expand...
True but he's talking about spears which are limited to a thrusting attack. Ever gone in a Khuzait tournament where you both have a spear and shield. It might be the most boring match on the planet and takes forever to kill anyone.

If I play on horseback with a spear/lance I always have a backup swinging polearm because pokey-pokey round and round on horse back is boring.
 
bigbalzzz said:
every culture used the spear differently from kung fu chinise to anti camel arabs to anti elephant infantry Indians .........etc
there is no right way for it
there is your way ----- and the other way!
Click to expand...
Friend, we're talking about Europeans and Arabs alone. The Arabs used the spear in, more-or-less, the same way that Europeans did from what I understand, as their method was heavily influenced by the Macedonians(which are not capable of being represented in-game due to the fact that the Macedonian Phalanx requires that the clipping issues be resolved. Their pikes were ~20 feet long (~6 meters)), Greeks, and early/late Romans.
The Mongols are the only faction present in the game which, from what I understand, never used spears in large numbers and, when they did, they preferred to do it via horse, and there's only really one way to use a spear from a horse.
You are just being pedantic.
 
How the spears are portrayed in bannerlord is archaic and obsolete, it was already bad for warband but still acceptable for it's age but now, it's just inexplicable.
 
Edalwulf Bergmann said:
Friend, we're talking about Europeans and Arabs alone. The Arabs used the spear in, more-or-less, the same way that Europeans did from what I understand,
Click to expand...
nope they didnt use them on horses, bow and sword on the back of a horse was the most common way for cavalry...
while spears were used for unprepared armies to deal with a more prepared army to dismount someone
meanwhile romans used spears for infantry to stand in the second row behind shield walls and poke people
both methods are similar to what we have now...
the video shows more a modren european style that didnt come until 1400+
the spears use-usage as they are in banner lord are more true to the time period
 
bigbalzzz said:
nope they didnt use them on horses, bow and sword on the back of a horse was the most common way for cavalry...
while spears were used for unprepared armies to deal with a more prepared army to dismount someone
meanwhile romans used spears for infantry to stand in the second row behind shield walls and poke people
both methods are similar to what we have now...
the video shows more a modren european style that didnt come until 1400+
the spears use-usage as they are in banner lord are more true to the time period
Click to expand...
Not working is intended use? they collide with team mates and never have i seen infantry stop a cavalry charge
 
bigbalzzz said:
the video shows more a modern European style that didn't come until 1400+
the spears use-usage as they are in banner lord are more true to the time period
Click to expand...
This is a falsehood. The method of spear-usage shown is accurate to most of Europe as early as 700 Anno Damini with certainty. The Gauls used spears in this fashion I know. The Norse and most of Europe during the "viking age" did as well, however, the extremely late Roman Empire / Byzantine Empire also switched back to this style near the collapse of proper Rome due to it being much easier to train levies into.
The Extremely early Roman Republic also did use spears this way.

It makes no sense for anyone to use them in any other fashion. If you hold the spear in the center, as was demonstrated in the second video, you cannot use it's full reach and cannot use it in a tight formation, such as a shield wall or phalanx (either Greek or Macedonian).
 
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