It's 2024. Spears still suck

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I recently have been playing the multiplayer mod cRPG for bannerlord. There they have made many changes to the combat mechanics, so much in fact that people are complaining that hoplites are too strong. For all the people here who wants to play a spear user, go play cRPG, it’s a lot of fun even after they inevitably nerf spears a bit again.
 
There are mods that fix the issue to big degree, but I understand that some people want to play MP or on console (very brave to buy mod heavy / dependent game like BL on console in the first place).
 
It would be nice if at the very least if stabs wouldn't be blocked by characters and objects behind you. That alone makes spear formations useless.

I never understood the logic behind that one. None of the other swinging weapons are blocked from activation by having a person or a wall behind you, so why just spears?
 
I never understood the logic behind that one. None of the other swinging weapons are blocked from activation by having a person or a wall behind you, so why just spears?
It happens with stabs on all weapons, though it's more pronounced on spears because of their length. Side swings can in some situations get stuck while overheads never get stuck.
 
Yeah agree on this . . . I notice Bannerlord, the 2H axes is one of the better weapons. Problem is spear hitbox and penetration is pretty lame (say vs 2H axe), but spear actually is more RL if one has crush through and slice through toggled (its one of the console activators) and helps it immensely but then other weapons like 2H axe becomes god like.

The BF and I new to HEMA, but are kung fu practitioners. It's ubiquity comes from both logistics and practicality. The spear, from a logistics point of view, it's easy to make. A spear head takes less mats and time compared to a sword. And in places where decent wood is available to make shafts . . . Secondly learning basics of a spear is easier than a sword but mastery of it takes longer than a straight edged saber technique wise. The range it provides for the effort of build and technique is the third reason why most armies fielded spearmen (they were spearwomen but that is more a rarity than norm in historical context), if you can hit someone before they can hit you, advantage central.

The spear in Ancient Chinese martial arts (as well as feudal Japanese) is considered the king of weapons. Our sifu can hold off three or four students with just saber and shield with his polearm (yue ya chan / monks spade). His specialty is to redirect or use blocks and whip around for a hit. Spears can be used at close range, you just have to pull it back and have hands at the half way point (same how hema halfsword technique with mail gloves). The best way is a jab to push / occupy someone / poke their shield / push it and pull back and angle strike on their parter (hopefully) who has an opening to snake the spear head in. Also angle changes can be done with back hand wrist shifts. Or one can stab in one direction and pull it and swing the spear head so it can slice (better used with blade type heads like glaives). Also the shaft can be used like staff weapon, for a blunt damage.

In HEMA spears are an important weapon (in early days of firearms, pikeman still had some use, and bayonets on long rifles like flintlocks were carry over from pikeman) and a lot of technique carries over across both disciplines. The range and ability to kill at that range is what gives a spearman advantage over a sword, mace, axe etc. And at certain angles, one can slide it inside a shield to get inside for a hit. However it is hard to translate that into a game, even games like mordhau and chivarly don't get it quite right. Maybe bannerlord can get the axe head hitbox and allow every spear to be swung / stabbed or if you hold attack button and swing the mouse it swings the spear slightly. Plus they'd have to have the hitbox for slice or pierce for the head and blunt to hit with the shaft.
 
Yeah agree on this . . . I notice Bannerlord, the 2H axes is one of the better weapons. Problem is spear hitbox and penetration is pretty lame (say vs 2H axe), but spear actually is more RL if one has crush through and slice through toggled (its one of the console activators) and helps it immensely but then other weapons like 2H axe becomes god like.

The BF and I new to HEMA, but are kung fu practitioners. It's ubiquity comes from both logistics and practicality. The spear, from a logistics point of view, it's easy to make. A spear head takes less mats and time compared to a sword. And in places where decent wood is available to make shafts . . . Secondly learning basics of a spear is easier than a sword but mastery of it takes longer than a straight edged saber technique wise. The range it provides for the effort of build and technique is the third reason why most armies fielded spearmen (they were spearwomen but that is more a rarity than norm in historical context), if you can hit someone before they can hit you, advantage central.

The spear in Ancient Chinese martial arts (as well as feudal Japanese) is considered the king of weapons. Our sifu can hold off three or four students with just saber and shield with his polearm (yue ya chan / monks spade). His specialty is to redirect or use blocks and whip around for a hit. Spears can be used at close range, you just have to pull it back and have hands at the half way point (same how hema halfsword technique with mail gloves). The best way is a jab to push / occupy someone / poke their shield / push it and pull back and angle strike on their parter (hopefully) who has an opening to snake the spear head in. Also angle changes can be done with back hand wrist shifts. Or one can stab in one direction and pull it and swing the spear head so it can slice (better used with blade type heads like glaives). Also the shaft can be used like staff weapon, for a blunt damage.

In HEMA spears are an important weapon (in early days of firearms, pikeman still had some use, and bayonets on long rifles like flintlocks were carry over from pikeman) and a lot of technique carries over across both disciplines. The range and ability to kill at that range is what gives a spearman advantage over a sword, mace, axe etc. And at certain angles, one can slide it inside a shield to get inside for a hit. However it is hard to translate that into a game, even games like mordhau and chivarly don't get it quite right. Maybe bannerlord can get the axe head hitbox and allow every spear to be swung / stabbed or if you hold attack button and swing the mouse it swings the spear slightly. Plus they'd have to have the hitbox for slice or pierce for the head and blunt to hit with the shaft.
Marry me !

I too like to muse about this sort of thing, safe here in the 21st century to dream of adventuring through history, 500, a thousand, two thousand, years ago .........
I suspect our approach to all this martial arts " business " is a modern construct, however.
Even " serious " movies, like " The Last Duel " ( a well - documented " true " story, a terrific film, and to be fair the fight did end up a pretty grubby affair on the ground, as the historical record describes, so OK Ridley Scott ), choreograph their fights for exciting modern entertainment, whatever that is. On the other hand is Bruce Lee et al - albeit great to watch. A kaleidoscope of images and ideation, from many sources, including pure imagination and " story - telling ", of what is " physically possible " in fighting, of what fighting is, of how a fight goes, is thus created .......... but this is not Sparta. Our club dojos, and HEMA, and MMA , etc, are for something - fitness, " sport " ( nb with rules, with regard to ..... safety ! ), fun, even nostalgic fantasy, but I have an idea our ancestors would look at us and laugh and say that we are all play - fighting children, thinking it even approaches a simulation of the real thing.
Don't believe the / your own propaganda.
Kill or be killed is a very different thing ( don't we know this, really ? )
Playing, at least watching, rugby gives one the feeling that our best physical efforts and intentions and training somehow degrade, almost clumsily, in the face of physics, reality, chaos, the other 100 kg guys ......... another observation is that real fights tend to go to the ground rather rapidly. Let alone real injuries quickly side- lining us fragile humans.
I imagine a close order spear and shield wall, say hoplites, vikings ( close order ? ...... maybe ), is a very different physical and psychological and technical prospect to a loose order one on one, or one on three or even four ( where, to be frank, the one " should not " prevail ), free - wheeling skirmish.
I consider shield and armour factors would make a big difference on a packed battlefield, especially with archers around. How would you feel getting out there in just, say, a linen shirt ?
I consider early to middle Imperial Roman legionaries ( nb not spears ) to be the most efficient infantry of pre - modern history. Who doesn't ?
But I think the biggest influence on any fight, on a small ( individual ) or large ( army, nation ) scale, is mental, related to morale, the will to fight, leadership, experience, effective tactics that can build a morale ascendancy, etc
After all, the best generals don't even have to fight .........


( btw my insights are informed by my experience of fencing, judo, hap ki do, rugby, archery, equestrian sports such as dressage, and table top wargaming and the "codifying" of combat in various rule sets, and of course a consuming interest to study history, especially military history; I see I have pursued a lot of " old world ambience " in my life, for some " romantic " reason, along with years of " reality " serving in Defence as an officer .............. )


Having said all this, I am of course in perfect agreement with the OP - it's 2024 and there is precious little about Bannerlord that does not still suck.
Inconceivable.
 
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I recommend using the Spear Rework mod on Bannerlord Nexus. Really old, but still works on 1.2.9.

The no extra damage version makes spears actual useful weapons in melee combat, while the extra damage version makes them flat out dominate, to the point that spear-armed Vlandian Sergeants will rip straight through Legionnaries.

If you can convince them to pull the spears out in the first place...
 
I remember how pleasantly surprised I was at how good spears were in VC, then Bannerlord came out and spears were :poop: again. I never understood why Taleworlds seems to dislike spears so much that they made them practically useless. But then they made swinging polearms so damn OP. :facepalm:
 
I recommend using the Spear Rework mod on Bannerlord Nexus. Really old, but still works on 1.2.9.

The no extra damage version makes spears actual useful weapons in melee combat, while the extra damage version makes them flat out dominate, to the point that spear-armed Vlandian Sergeants will rip straight through Legionnaries.

If you can convince them to pull the spears out in the first place...

This is a very good point. I think a real "fix" to the spears, would probably need to involve fixes in AI behavioral patterns in general.
 
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