Russians rioting in Tallinn, Estonia

[Hallequin]

The Soviet control of the Baltic states was interrupted by Nazi German invasion of the region in 1941. The German occupation lasted until late 1944 (in Courland, until early 1945), when the countries were re-occupied by the Red Army. In all three countries, Baltic partisans, known colloquially as the Forest Brothers, waged unsuccessful guerilla warfare against the Soviet occupation for the next eight years in a bid to regain their nations' independence.

The latter are the ONLY ONES who should have a right to a monument. And not Waffen SS and Soviet criminals.

Quoted for truth.

And you're making it out that the Soviet Union was 100% evil and nothing good at all. The Devil incarnate. Everything had something good in it, even the Nazis.

They weren't all evil, it's just that the whole soviet union was a huge mix of retarded ideologies, corrupted by corruption, and that's why it didn't work out and nobody liked them.

 

[morgoth2005]

They weren't all evil, it's just that the whole soviet union was a huge mix of retarded ideologies, corrupted by corruption, and that's why it didn't work out and nobody liked them.

I agree 100% but I'm just saying that they did a lot of good things for the countries in it. they did much more ****, but that's beside the point.

 

[Hallequin]

No they didn't do any ****ing good to us. If not the occupation, all the Baltic states would be at least as developed as Finland, Sweden or any of the other  surrounding non ex-USSR countries.

 

[Archonsod]

I dunno if I'd go that far. At least the Soviets gave them a modernised industrial economy rather than the agricultural one they had prior to the occupation.

 

[morgoth2005]

And all the industry workers are Russian! 

 

[Archonsod]

That's because all the Baltic workers are over here whoring themselves out as farm labourers

 

[morgoth2005]

They're up a notch from the poor Russians.

 

[Hallequin]

At that time, places like Finland and Scandinavia weren't that industrialized either, I'm sure the industry came there, and would have come to the Baltics in its own time.

 

[Archonsod]

They're up a notch from the poor Russians.

They're a notch up from the bloody natives as well. £150 per day cash in hand, no tax to pay

At that time, places like Finland and Scandinavia weren't that industrialized either, I'm sure the industry came there, and would have come to the Baltics in its own time.

Finland's 'rise' is relatively recent, and bootstrapped by the EU. It's still not what you'd consider a strong economy - they're dependent on certain key employers to prop up the country. If they lost those, the whole thing would likely fall down.

 

[morgoth2005]

They're a notch up from the bloody natives as well. £150 per day cash in hand, no tax to pay Confused

What, that guy on the news got 50 quid after 3 weeks for 1 week's work.

 

[Hallequin]

Finland's 'rise' is relatively recent, and bootstrapped by the EU. It's still not what you'd consider a strong economy - they're dependent on certain key employers to prop up the country. If they lost those, the whole thing would likely fall down.

So, if the Baltics weren't occupied, they would have eventually joined the EU, and with their help, they would have developed just as well as the others.

 

[Archonsod]

What, that guy on the news got 50 quid after 3 weeks for 1 week's work.

Wasn't that on an investigation into a dodgy agency though?

Depending on the work they'll get between £100  - £150 per day. The agency will take a cut, depending on precisely what it provides (i.e. if it's giving them accomodation they might take up to 40%). Most of these guys will come over for between 6 weeks to three months, and work as much as possible (the entire time if they're lucky). They'll come out with around 8k or so to take home. Not only is it enough to live on, but in certain countries it could buy a new house.

So, if the Baltics weren't occupied, they would have eventually joined the EU, and with their help, they would have developed just as well as the others.

Doubt it. They'd be dependent on the EU agreeing to their entry in the first case. In the second, several are joining the EU.

 

[Hallequin]

Still, through 50 years in a democratic, capitalist system, with strong links to the rest of western Europe, they would have had more than enough time and opportunity to develop their economies. They would have been much better off without the occupation economically, not to mention other aspects, and that's a fact.

 

[Ilex]

At that time, places like Finland and Scandinavia weren't that industrialized either, I'm sure the industry came there, and would have come to the Baltics in its own time.

Finland probably wouldn't have industrialized so quickly if it wasn't for the Soviet Union. The war-reparations Finland owed to the SU forced Finland to produce more factories and such (it was agreed that Finland could pay with products produced by the industry).

 

[morgoth2005]

Same goes for the SU and Nazis. They forced the SU to industrialize so quickly half of Europe got swarmed by AKs and T-34s

 

[Archonsod]

Still, through 50 years in a democratic, capitalist system, with strong links to the rest of western Europe, they would have had more than enough time and opportunity to develop their economies. They would have been much better off without the occupation economically, not to mention other aspects, and that's a fact.

That's assuming that the larger economies of Europe allowed them to develop. There's just as much chance that they'd end up being effective slaves to foreign investment.

 

[Hallequin]

You don't end up being a slave to foreign investment. That's more of a starting position. Think of China. Around 25 years ago it was nothing but a huge commie state. Then the huge amount of foreign investments came. With them, China developed a lot, and now, the amount it invests abroad will soon surpass its FDI.

 

[Archonsod]

China was big enough to lay out precisely what could and couldn't be done though. It's still running under a controlled economy today, however most multinationals figure the profit is worth the risk.

Foreign investment is only a starting point if you can cut a slice off yourself. What would be more likely to happen in the Baltic (especially after WWII) is that you'd end up with foreign companies owning all of the industry, and the bare minimum getting kicked back into the domestic economy.

 

[Hallequin]

Still, at least it's something, and eventually there is some development. Unlike under communism where it's the same **** every day.

 

[Nahkis]

At that time, places like Finland and Scandinavia weren't that industrialized either, I'm sure the industry came there, and would have come to the Baltics in its own time.

Finland probably wouldn't have industrialized so quickly if it wasn't for the Soviet Union. The war-reparations Finland owed to the SU forced Finland to produce more factories and such (it was agreed that Finland could pay with products produced by the industry).

Yeah, before the winter war Finland had a handful of old airplanes and tanks. Not that Finland has ever had an effective force of tanks or other armour, just infantry.