Question to the Devs - Why the swing arcs are so long?

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Did I specify a charging time?
What if I said 0.1 seconds maximum?
All your comment would have been useless.

Before answering someone with a counter-argument you should think about the BEST of their arguments set IN THE BEST POSSIBLE CONDITIONS, and possibly making it explicit.
Or, set two conditions, the best (or tolerable) and the worst (intolerable) and respond to both.

Having closed this controversy, I present the example of the solution in a neutral situation:
The game animations are AS CURRENTLY THEY ARE.
Let's assume that when the player moves the mouse in one direction and presses the key to attack the arc covered by the arm that goes from angle 0 to the maximum angle theta-max is completed in a certain time Tmax and from there on the player decides whether to keep the key pressed or to release it.
Currently in play, regardless of when the key is released (therefore also for t <Tmax), the arc traveled always goes from 0 <theta = theta-max.
(for now we ignore the heavy attack mechanic in the game)
My solution implies that:
If the player releases the attack key in a time of 0 <t <Tmax, then the angle traveled by the arm during the charge of the attack will be 0 <theta <theta-max and it will be theta = theta-max only if t = Tmax.

In summary: the BIGGEST AND LONGEST animations that I am placing are only THE SAME WITH WHICH YOU ALREADY PLAY.
This means that generally the arcs of the attacks will be shorter the shorter the charge time, the maximum value of which is Tmax, ALREADY PRESENT IN GAME.

Since I have also suggested a minimum arc under which one cannot descend, this implies that there is also a time Tmin, which is equal to the length of the arc divided by the speed (expressed in radians) of the weapon.
Even if the button is released in a time t <Tmin, the arc traveled will still be theta = theta-min.


Regarding certain counter-arguments that I don't know where they came from:
-by charging the attack I do not mean anything other than what the character is currently doing in play when he brings his arm, with the weapon in position and then launches the attack.

If it is not clear, what I am proposing SPEEDS the game, not the other way around.
And in addition to speeding it up (balancing its damage), it makes it deeper.
And by deep I mean those damn spears can be used as a player wants them to be used.
If he wants to use them slowly by charging attacks, he can do it, but if he wants to perform faster but less effective attacks in terms of damage, he can do it as well.
And if he wants to attack from the left or right, he can do it.
Again, unnecessarily complicated solution that doesn't really address the issue; this also doesn't help with the AI counterpart of said proposal or address the collision issues either.

The swing is exaggerated for gameplay reasons (NESW direction, keeping all directions same 'timing', etc...) but it's too wide which is particularly noticeable in crowded melee; the animations are like full on golf driver swings.
Swings should be limited in tight spaces so that only downswings or thrusts work (which still don't most cases) and only the front lines should be in actual combat. Realistically, shorter weapons (daggers and maces) should win in these encounters but even those are hindered by the same collision issue afaik.

There was a mod out I think early on that sort of addressed this in a way (and that vibrating nonsense) by increasing the 'bubble' between the agents which would help with this.
 
@darksoulshin i understand your passion over this argument but as a veteran (at least in SP) the last thing i care about is charging anything slower, the game has a way to increase both speed and DMG just by simply building your character and increasing skill.

On the realistic approach of melee combat i would rather prefer a stance system.
You click a button and now you have slower moves that might bring more DMG at the expense of DPS this can be useful against shields or in case of axes, can make for more powerful and maybe knockdowns cleaves. without sacrificing reaction time or making the attacker more predictable and vulnerable. (also if you ever tried holding your weapon for a decently long time the enemy is more likely to parry, if anything the move should be faster if considering the "charging" approach. that will mean the only way to block such a strike is a perfect parry)

As far as multiplayer is concerned one of the best PVP medieval games out there are in my opinion most Souls game, you got different move sets depending on the weapon type then some unique ones. This requires extensive care by the animation team and might never be seen.
Honestly speaking most types of combat in Bannerlord are very fun and can be very effective. i have built foot spearmans that worked very well and knocked people down, when stroked correctly (mainly in the face) even killed people with one blow.
the way weapons interact with skills and perks i don't really see that as a problem in the game. yes, in a chaotic situation you are forced to only use overhead strikes but if you have ever seen real guys in armor fighting side to side you know that's mostly what they do, other than leg fighting to try and unbalance their opponent. to do any kind of swing you must get some separation.

I understand where you are coming from and trying to say but i don't see Bannerlord as a good fit for it.
 
But what's complicated in saying that if you release the mouse button quickly the attack starts faster instead of being charged to the maximum ?
The concept, in and of itself, is not complicated (same as with your other proposal on the armor/segmentation/hitbox) but in implementing it in the game practically where it is complicated.
A suggestion like this may be considered at the very early stages of development and I'm sure they had those discussions then; and they went/stuck with the 'handling' stat route for what you're proposing.
It would be great if they tied the swing/attack animations to the handling stats of the weapons but that didn't happen either, only the damage modifiers.

It's good to be idealist but at this stage of the development and near final release (let's face it, only QOL/balancing is incoming...and some fox pelt pauldrons), is not something that they will or can change.
 
A suggestion like this may be considered at the very early stages of development and I'm sure they had those discussions then; and they went/stuck with the 'handling' stat route for what you're proposing.
Handling is not a problem.
This stat determines the size of the arcs within which you do little damage, medium damage, a lot of damage.
Therefore the handling divides the arc into 3 arc sectors.
If the division of the arc into 3 sectors is done by means of a formula that, as the statistics increases, makes the arc of the low damage smaller and enlarges those of the medium and high damage, then the problem does not arise, since given an arc of length X< (max arc), the handling formula will divide the arc sectors X as it would for the current, fixed, max arc.
 
On the realistic approach of melee combat i would rather prefer a stance system.
You click a button and now you have slower moves that might bring more DMG at the expense of DPS this can be useful against shields or in case of axes, can make for more powerful and maybe knockdowns cleaves. without sacrificing reaction time or making the attacker more predictable and vulnerable. (also if you ever tried holding your weapon for a decently long time the enemy is more likely to parry, if anything the move should be faster if considering the "charging" approach. that will mean the only way to block such a strike is a perfect parry)
What you suggest is nothing more than what I suggest but with 2 speeds instead of leaving the choice to the player.
I'm not saying it's not good, but as long as you leave the choice to the player, at least in this forum there is no risk of filing complaints like "the fast stance must be faster" and then seeing "the fast stance is op, nerf la fast stance ", and threads of the same type for heavy or slow stance, if you prefer.
It is true, the attack, with your two stance system, would be slightly more readable, but I cannot say that they are not also in the case proposed by me, since I have suggested a minimum arc under which it is not possible to go.
So there is, in the case proposed by me, a minimum and a maximum speed (fixed the weapon), but there are also those in the middle.
But nothing can be faster than the maximum speed (given by the minimum arc). So the fastest attack is still "parable".
After that it is a matter of choosing how small this arc should be chosen or how much to speed up the defense animation.
But this operation will have to be done both in my case and in yours.
As far as multiplayer is concerned one of the best PVP medieval games out there are in my opinion most Souls game, you got different move sets depending on the weapon type then some unique ones.
I would avoid taking a souls as an example of both a good combat system and realistic or accurate combat.
It has so many flaws in core play that you don't even need to complain about the inaccuracy in the use of weapons.
Two-handed swords (such as claymore) are generally not used at all as they are used in that game.
Indeed they tend, by means of the levers and thanks to the fact that the fulcrum is very close to the guard, to be as fast as one-handed swords with small handles, which do not allow levers like those of the two-handed weapon (but have the advantage of having either the other free hand or a shield). In the souls that weapon is used without the brain, but we just overlook it, because the gameplay counts more than historical accuracy.
But that series (the souls) has far worse problems than historical accuracy, although it also has merits (and is saved for those).
Hitboxes included, which are very erratic. In some cases they are accurate, in other cases they are badly done, and those of the bosses are just giant bubbles that practically deal maximum damage everywhere.
The "parry" as conceived is the antithesis of the sekiro deflection. High risk and very high payoff, with a slowdown in the game and an endless stun that doesn't even occur when you "shield bash" him in the face.
The parry of bannerlord is very similar to the deflection of sekiro, only here we do not have a "posture" but we have the direction of the defense.

In reality I see the combat system and bannerlords as "realistic in effect" even if it does not reflect historical realism (which in reality can also be dispensed with within certain reasonable limits)
Honestly speaking most types of combat in Bannerlord are very fun and can be very effective. i have built foot spearmans that worked very well and knocked people down, when stroked correctly (mainly in the face) even killed people with one blow.
The problem is that until you get the right perks, the spears are very "redundant" but worse still "boring" as they are flat in their use.
the way weapons interact with skills and perks i don't really see that as a problem in the game.
To tell you the truth, to me those perks are nothing more than "stakes" passed off as "improvements". I don't like choosing between two options, it makes the game less free.
I would prefer to select the desired perk one at a time.
I would opt more for a system with fewer perks but more substantial, especially those that concern the scope of role play.
If assassination is a means of killing an opponent and you want to play assassin, then inevitably the ability to climb, throw a rope, grab from behind must be at stake.
If there were these mechanics, there might be perks better than there are and fit for purpose in the skill related to stealth and crime.
I avoid wandering into other skills, but the gist is that they lack the mechanics on which more substantial perks could be invented than there are.
if you have ever seen real guys in armor fighting side to side you know that's mostly what they do, other than leg fighting to try and unbalance their opponent. to do any kind of swing you must get some separation.
Yes, I've seen some and they go as you describe it.
Obviously in HEMA competitions there is no tendency to want to kill the opponent, so all the part relating to some techniques such as the half sword is missing.
The difference between competition and reality is that in the first the goal is to tire the opponent and knock him down, in reality it is to hit him fatally or earlier, when he is standing, in some uncovered point, or on the ground, with a dagger, after you jumped on it.
But these are the cases in which the two are heavily protected. In cases where the armor is not present or where there are many points discovered, the style changes a lot (let's imagine a duel as one of those of "fiore dei liberi", where one does not wear a protection if not light).
 
shieldwall's can't attack, they hit their friends shields. it's not a 1/5 mistake either, over half their attacks get blocked.
line formation suffers as well, but not as game breaking

the only weapons that work are <60 length, but the units using them dry swing a lot
I love how well the weapons work in formation...:iamamoron:

 
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