My sincere expectations to Bannerlord

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Ulfhedinn

Sergeant
I don't want to appear ungrateful, but Bannerlord somehow disappointed me more than it made me happy. A lot of work has been done and very good things have come and are to come. I know that. But I think that after a year some suggestions raised by the community should become a priority for improving the game.

I think the best way to conduct the next updates is not to concentrate efforts on creating new content, but to correct everything that is pending, or it will turn into a snowball. But I'll also list here some suggestions and expectations for the next major update:

1- SIEGE WARFARE = One of the most requested fixes for Bannerlord refers to siege warfare, AI needs to be improved!
a) Units get stuck, either attacker or defender, and I often had to go through the castle alone to find the remaining enemies.
b) The attacking army should make better use of all available resources and better divide the units into multiple fronts, using all ladders, siege towers, battering rams, catapults and barricades. And the defending army must respond appropriately, also using the castle's defense levels, retreating to the inner walls if necessary.
c) Please, fix the ladders of the siege tower! The troops use only one...

2- OVERHAUL OF ITEMS = A complete overhaul of the attributes and values of all items of the game.
a) In-game items need to be rebalanced in attributes and values, there are many inconsistencies in the current equipment.
b) If you get an axe blow to your head, it doesn't really matter if you have the best helmet or the weakest one, I particularly like that reality in the game and makes cheaper units stand a chance of facing more expensive units. So I am not in favor of drastically increasing the attributes of the strongest equipment, however, I think that an adjustment can be made so that the investment and maintenance of a more expensive unit is really worth the effort.
c) Some throwing weapons do not have the amount shown in the character and I honestly think that this is an important detail that breaks the immersion. The simple javelin, was supposed to have 8 javelins (7 in the bag and 1 in the hand), the throwing axe was supposed to have 4 axes (3 in the belt and 1 in the hand) and so on...
d) I know that the same logic above cannot be applied to archers or crossbowmen, but let's face it that throwing weapons need a little more ammunition and that would considerably increase the amount of some throwing weapons that are misrepresented. In addition, I think they should also receive bonuses against shields.
e) Spears should also receive a buff, they are the most common and most efficient weapons of all ancient wars.
f) Many items (the vast majority are armor) that are represented in the game's images (loadscreens and campaign intro) are NOT in the game and I really think this is a big flaw. If more items will be added, start with those that are missing.

3- OVERALL GAMEPLAY = Battles, diplomacy, improved AI, new game possibilities...
a) Develop AI in battles, make the units defend themselves more, that each culture has unique variations of different strategies, that the formations work and that the spears have an improved performance, allowing attacks from different angles and that can be thrown.
b) Game diplomacy should be better developed, greater diplomatic control of the kingdom itself and intrigues (spread rumors, romance) and other options like assassination and sabotage should be part of the game. It would be a great and smart addition for Bannerlord.
c) Assign units to the correct classes (Skirmishers, Heavy Cavalry...) and create others like Shock Infantry and Bodyguards.
d) Improve the appearance of various npcs and ensure that certain hair and beard styles do not appear in other cultures.
e) Add some way to ambush and fight in a scenario where the player and his troops are hiding waiting for command to attack while the enemy army marches through the scene. That would be epic and we could create guerrilla tactics.
f) Some mods like RTS Camera, Improved Garrisons and Freelancer they are SO GOOD that they should be officially implemented and developed! The rest of the mods are more optional and a matter of taste... Realistic Battle Mod it is also an essential mod, but I am hopeful that the next updates will develop the AI and combat of the game to the point that it will no longer be needed. Please TW, you need to consider that!
g) Seriously, check out the mods above and embrace the proposal developed by these guys and their amazing work! They and all players will be rewarded. There is a lot of content that would greatly enhance the game!
h) A small DLC would be very welcome for us and I also believe that for you, TW. The Nords are not in the game, not as a kingdom of its own, and it would be very interesting if we could witness a small expansion of the northern lands or a "viking invasion" from there, bringing more chaos to Calradia. I would buy!

For now, I think that's it. I intended to modify and create some units in the game, but I will stop playing and leave it to do when there is something more definitive (and better). I sincerely hope that TW will consider the suggestions above.
 

ShakenSpeare

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I firmly agree with you, as does most of the community, but the developers seldom respond to community feedback like this. There was a Community made road map a little while ago (see here), and one developer did respond to it, but it was underwhelming, and he effectively made it clear that the company's goal for the game is to fix the bugs and polish it up a bit, not add any further content, against community wishes
(see Dev response here). Perhaps fixing the state of the game should be the priority, but there appears to be no further ambition beyond that. Nothing against him, as he was responding on his own time, and there are almost no official replies by the developers, only those who wish to interact with the community on their own time. But still, it doesn't seem that TW will take your well-thought-out feedback to heart, unfortunately. This forum is extremely unhappy these days.
 

Ulfhedinn

Sergeant
Bannerlord is a jewel that needs to be polished... In addition to the fixes, additions like the ones I suggested would make the game not only better, but incomparable with any other of its kind! I refuse to believe that TW has no intention of continuing to develop and improve the game. Where else would the company bet? Why the lack of communication with the community?

I really like this game, and I really want to see it become the game we've been waiting for!
 
Taleworlds are interested in moving on to console ports and DLCs for Bannerlord and are also exploring an unannounced space game.
Any further development of the main game on PC will be modest as they already made the sales, thanks to the folks who bought into Early Access. It is what it is and only mods would bring significant improvements.
 

Ulfhedinn

Sergeant
Space game? Oh, ****... I prefer to buy Bannerlord again just to have a fixed and improved version!
The small DLC that I suggested is not only intended to bring the Nords as a playable culture, but also to help TW maintain its investment in Bannerlord. It is a game with so much potential that it is a pity to see it still with only one ladder being used in the siege towers, for example.
 

ShakenSpeare

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Space game? Oh, ****... I prefer to buy Bannerlord again just to have a fixed and improved version!
The small DLC that I suggested is not only intended to bring the Nords as a playable culture, but also to help TW maintain its investment in Bannerlord. It is a game with so much potential that it is a pity to see it still with only one ladder being used in the siege towers, for example.
If it makes you feel any better, the mods for this game in the future will probably make it a great game and will make it more like what we want, but you probably already know that. Even with that in mind though, I still feel skeptical, I'd rather not be any more disappointed than I already have been.
 

Ulfhedinn

Sergeant
With RTS Camera, Improved Garrisons, Freelancer and Realistic Battle Mod they will advance greatly on the right path!
Remaining only fixes and balances to do (If they don't want to create anything else, which would be a shame).

The irony was to create an account just to reinforce the suggestions in the forum and be seen, but apparently this is one of the problems.
Well, I did my part and I will be waiting for good news to get back to playing Bannerlord...
 
Taleworlds are interested in moving on to console ports and DLCs for Bannerlord and are also exploring an unannounced space game.
Any further development of the main game on PC will be modest as they already made the sales, thanks to the folks who bought into Early Access. It is what it is and only mods would bring significant improvements.
If we could only have the multiplayer server files in order to be able to mod multiplayer. But nope, continues to be unreleased.
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
Thank you for pinging me @Ulfhedinn , This is not an answer per se rather I am writing this so that you know that I read it. :smile:
I will try to write an answer after gathering some information from the team and other members on the feedback you gave. In general however some of the requests you made in are answered by different developers in different posts. One of the major ones being "Community Feedback-based EARLY ACCESS ROADMAP - ready for you, Taleworlds!" however I will still try to elaborate on them
As always, thank you for your feedback!
 

Ulfhedinn

Sergeant
Thank you for pinging me @Ulfhedinn , This is not an answer per se rather I am writing this so that you know that I read it. :smile:
I will try to write an answer after gathering some information from the team and other members on the feedback you gave. In general however some of the requests you made in are answered by different developers in different posts. One of the major ones being "Community Feedback-based EARLY ACCESS ROADMAP - ready for you, Taleworlds!" however I will still try to elaborate on them
As always, thank you for your feedback!
Thank you for viewing and responding @SadShogun , we wish to be seen on this forum and do our part to help develop the game...
Everyone here wants the best for Bannerlord! I have two other things that I forgot to emphasize or mention:

1- COLLISION OF UNITS (High priority)


I had forgotten about this video and how the collision of the units here is more realistic and interesting than it currently is in the game.


See how spear formations are ineffective against cavalry (and everything in fact) and this greatly undermines the battle simulation that we want in Bannerlord. It makes tactics unnecessary and the battles come down to "selecting all" and "charge" so that everyone gets tangled up in a large mass that lasts 30 seconds of battle. :/


2- CLAN BANNERS (Low priority)

It's need to fix the banners, it's not a priority, but it does make the game look sloppy.
 
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SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
I don't want to appear ungrateful, but Bannerlord somehow disappointed me more than it made me happy. A lot of work has been done and very good things have come and are to come. I know that. But I think that after a year some suggestions raised by the community should become a priority for improving the game.

I think the best way to conduct the next updates is not to concentrate efforts on creating new content, but to correct everything that is pending, or it will turn into a snowball. But I'll also list here some suggestions and expectations for the next major update:

1- SIEGE WARFARE = One of the most requested fixes for Bannerlord refers to siege warfare, AI needs to be improved!
a) Units get stuck, either attacker or defender, and I often had to go through the castle alone to find the remaining enemies.
b) The attacking army should make better use of all available resources and better divide the units into multiple fronts, using all ladders, siege towers, battering rams, catapults and barricades. And the defending army must respond appropriately, also using the castle's defense levels, retreating to the inner walls if necessary.
c) Please, fix the ladders of the siege tower! The troops use only one...

2- OVERHAUL OF ITEMS = A complete overhaul of the attributes and values of all items of the game.
a) In-game items need to be rebalanced in attributes and values, there are many inconsistencies in the current equipment.
b) If you get an axe blow to your head, it doesn't really matter if you have the best helmet or the weakest one, I particularly like that reality in the game and makes cheaper units stand a chance of facing more expensive units. So I am not in favor of drastically increasing the attributes of the strongest equipment, however, I think that an adjustment can be made so that the investment and maintenance of a more expensive unit is really worth the effort.
c) Some throwing weapons do not have the amount shown in the character and I honestly think that this is an important detail that breaks the immersion. The simple javelin, was supposed to have 8 javelins (7 in the bag and 1 in the hand), the throwing axe was supposed to have 4 axes (3 in the belt and 1 in the hand) and so on...
d) I know that the same logic above cannot be applied to archers or crossbowmen, but let's face it that throwing weapons need a little more ammunition and that would considerably increase the amount of some throwing weapons that are misrepresented. In addition, I think they should also receive bonuses against shields.
e) Spears should also receive a buff, they are the most common and most efficient weapons of all ancient wars.
f) Many items (the vast majority are armor) that are represented in the game's images (loadscreens and campaign intro) are NOT in the game and I really think this is a big flaw. If more items will be added, start with those that are missing.

3- OVERALL GAMEPLAY = Battles, diplomacy, improved AI, new game possibilities...
a) Develop AI in battles, make the units defend themselves more, that each culture has unique variations of different strategies, that the formations work and that the spears have an improved performance, allowing attacks from different angles and that can be thrown.
b) Game diplomacy should be better developed, greater diplomatic control of the kingdom itself and intrigues (spread rumors, romance) and other options like assassination and sabotage should be part of the game. It would be a great and smart addition for Bannerlord.
c) Assign units to the correct classes (Skirmishers, Heavy Cavalry...) and create others like Shock Infantry and Bodyguards.
d) Improve the appearance of various npcs and ensure that certain hair and beard styles do not appear in other cultures.
e) Add some way to ambush and fight in a scenario where the player and his troops are hiding waiting for command to attack while the enemy army marches through the scene. That would be epic and we could create guerrilla tactics.
f) Some mods like RTS Camera, Improved Garrisons and Freelancer they are SO GOOD that they should be officially implemented and developed! The rest of the mods are more optional and a matter of taste... Realistic Battle Mod it is also an essential mod, but I am hopeful that the next updates will develop the AI and combat of the game to the point that it will no longer be needed. Please TW, you need to consider that!
g) Seriously, check out the mods above and embrace the proposal developed by these guys and their amazing work! They and all players will be rewarded. There is a lot of content that would greatly enhance the game!
h) A small DLC would be very welcome for us and I also believe that for you, TW. The Nords are not in the game, not as a kingdom of its own, and it would be very interesting if we could witness a small expansion of the northern lands or a "viking invasion" from there, bringing more chaos to Calradia. I would buy!

For now, I think that's it. I intended to modify and create some units in the game, but I will stop playing and leave it to do when there is something more definitive (and better). I sincerely hope that TW will consider the suggestions above.
  1. This is being worked on by our combat team and I am not qualified to comment on this topic.
  2. Overhaul of items
    1. This is actively being worked out, with item prices and their attributes balanced according to their usefulness.
    2. Armor and damage calculation is also something actively being discussed. How much change it will bring I am not sure but it is possible to increase the progression and overall effectiveness of armor (especially mid to high tier).
    3. Look at 4
    4. This is also probably an engine optimization issue where I am not qualified..I believe throwing axes already possess a bonus against shields. Throwing weapons in their current state can be very powerful, 2 shot killers with little risk. I do not think they require ammunition buff (perhaps from a player's perspective running out of ammo early is frustrating, but if this is the case we have to reduce the efficiency of the throwing weapons)
    5. I agree spears can have more utility even in infantry combat.
    6. I believe these will be fixed as the game closes to a full release.
  3. Overall Gameplay
    1. Our formation AIs are continuously improved, but you're right in terms of some formation types (spear bracing, etc.)
    2. These are new features and has to be evaluated one by one, but in short, we are considering adding some of these (relations effect to diplomacy)
    3. I believe these will be fixed as the game closes to a full release.
    4. Again, I believe these will be fixed as the game closes to a full release.
    5. This is a major feature introduction, it needs a full discussion on its own.
    6. While I also like these mods and love to play with them, not every feature they have are aligned with the vision of the game. Though I agree, there are many good ideas in the mods which can be incorporated into the base game. Incorporating mod mechanics generally have the following problems
      1. Requires substantial refactoring to make the code production quality (as modders can use shortcuts and other unintended uses)
      2. Mods can make the game overwhelming for newer players (I am not meaning casual players), some mechanics introduced by these mods are hard to grasp at the first glance and become only apparent after the player is versed in the basic gameplay.
As always thank you for your feedback!
 

Ulfhedinn

Sergeant
Thank you very much for the answers! (y)

It is great to know that all of these improvements are being studied and in constant development. I'm look forward to the next updates.
Ah, don't forget the banners. Non-centralized art and many patterns have problems to fit certain shields...

---

About all of the above answers I would like to make a request. Please, it is a request that TW need to consider:

Regarding the implementation of mods, I understood the points. However, it is worth considering the approval of the mod and really thinking about what "the vision of the game" is proposing to the players. Perhaps one thing or another is too much for new players, but the problem is precisely the lack of options in the basic gameplay! Please contact the @Bloc , talk about the inclusion of the mod in question of gameplay and "programming". I am sure that you will reach a mutual agreement for the benefit of the entire player community! New players want content, want fun! New players and casual players want to choose to be just regular soldiers or to be bandits and live a life of looting (even easier gameplay than "basic").TW, bet on it, you will not regret it. Bannerlord, as a sequel, should bring what was Warband and more!

---

Do you consider the idea of a DLC?

A new playable culture (Nord) would be nice. In the game lore, we have Sturgia as a faction conquered and culturally influenced by the nords, however, a "second invasion" would not be impossible to happen, taking into account that the first invasion was a success and that it is still necessary to look for more fertile lands, not to mention the commercial and martial interest in more distant lands...

---

@SadShogun , and what do you have to say about the collision of the units? How did we get to the point of this "madness" in battle, since we had a much better collision represented in the video above? I also think it is worthwhile to bring an image here, brought by @Departed on the behavior of the units. Original topic here.

battle.png


Here I will gather two videos that I think TW should watch about spears and formations:


Terco_Viejo:

Look, even the basics of how a fallback order works is broken (or doesn't work as you would expect, imho). Taleworlds has been aware of this since I brought it to their attention in August in alfa-beta period 2019 here. Below is an updated video test of how fallback works in Warband vs Bannerlord.


I will also bring an important detail in the use of two-handed spears and pikes, observed by the great @Terco_Viejo , see his comment:

Terco_Viejo:

One-handed spears/lances when used with or withaout a shield for attacking, have an adequate performance in terms of the use/balance of the weapon itself, i.e. the hand grips the wood within the centre area of weapon balance. That is fine in my eyes.

However, when two-handed pikes/spears are used, imho the grip position should be further back (towards the non-bladed end... I mean). If anyone has ever picked up/played with a pool stick, they know that the balance between thrust and control/accuracy is achieved by holding the end of the stick with one hand and sliding it inside the dominant hand guiding the shot.

Well... take a look at this and share your thoughts with us:


yvK6m.jpg
 
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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Sadshogun and other devs already know of my concern about the wild jittering observed when colliding agents with each other. That's why I want to bring the thread back to be noted here. Check this.

giphy.gif

#fixwildjitteringffs
 

guiskj

Squire
I love RTS Camera, but this is clearly something that TW intends to never incorporate into Bannerlord and indeed should remain a mod.
RTS Camera features from Nexus description:
  • Free camera mode switchable at any time. (The main reason I don't think TW would do this is the same reason why they don't want a minimap, they want to keep things at the character-level perspective and not at the overlord commander level)
  • Clickable troop cards.
  • Command your troops to attack a specific enemy formation. Your cavalry can attack the enemy archers without being distracted by other enemies and spreading across all the battle field. (TW seems to want the AI to handle this. If I remember correctly they have directly addressed the concept of formation-targeting and said no)
  • Select your formation by middle mouse clicking on units in formation. (This is nice and I would like added to the game. Just good QoL)
  • Control one of your soldiers and continue fighting/commanding after player character is killed in battle. (Definitely not "in-vision" for TW and I get that they want you to be committed to your character)
  • Watch any unit and optionally take control of any unit in player team. (Same reason as above)
  • Change time speed in battle, or pause the battle. (Pausing is a big no-no, as it goes into the realm of overlord commander rather than a single soldier)

As for RBM, I hope that TW will find a middleground and address the most obvious flaws fixed by the mod. I imagine the mod will remain an option for those of us that want a bigger challenge. And I think that is an OK balance.

Now, @SadShogun , the Freelancer and Improved Guarrisons mod is nothing but a win for TW. Both are 100% optional and can be ignored by the player completely, meaning that the overwhelming new players perspective is not there.
Secondly, I think they merge with the game perfectly. Freelancer gives you more options on how your character grows and interacts with Calradia's residents. It specially prolongs the early game, something Bannerlord desperately need in my opinion.

Improved Guarrisons is just such a QoL that it is not even funny and it is a much better solution to the barebones auto-recruitment added a couple patches ago. More Importantly, its main benefit is to allow players to keep playing with their chosen culture. The mod allows you to specify what troops you want to recruit. The Player 99% of the time gets award a foreign fief, meaning the primary recruitment options for the player are almost never from the culture they have chosen to align with. I personally really dislike almost always playing with Imperial troops no matter which side I have chosen because more often than not I am awarded an Imperial fief.
 
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Ulfhedinn

Sergeant
Yeah, RTS Camera can remain a optional mod (despite being a good addition) and the mention of RBM is about the balance that the game needs, in addition to improved spear performance, IA behavior, etc...

Now, @SadShogun , the Freelancer and Improved Guarrisons mod is nothing but a win for TW. Both are 100% optional and can be ignored by the player completely, meaning that the overwhelming new players perspective is not there.
Secondly, I think they merge with the game perfectly. Freelancer gives you more options on how your character grows and interacts with Calradia's residents. It specially prolongs the early game, something Bannerlord desperately need in my opinion.

Improved Guarrisons is just such a QoL that it is not even funny and it is a much better solution to the barebones auto-recruitment added a couple patches ago. More Importantly, its main benefit is to allow players to keep playing with their chosen culture. The mod allows you to specify what troops you want to recruit. The Player 99% of the time gets award a foreign fief, meaning the primary recruitment options for the player are almost never from the culture they have chosen to align with. I personally really dislike almost always playing with Imperial troops no matter which side I have chosen because more often then not I am awarded an Imperial fief.

+1. Very well said.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
Remember that although the RTS mod is acclaimed for its distinctive aerial camera (which I wouldn't include in the base game), it comes equipped with other very interesting additions such as slowmo, hide UI and what seems to me to be the most interesting of all them... enemy focus.
 
Do you consider the idea of a DLC?

A new playable culture (Nord) would be nice. In the game lore, we have Sturgia as a faction conquered and culturally influenced by the nords, however, a "second invasion" would not be impossible to happen, taking into account that the first invasion was a success and that it is still necessary to look for more fertile lands, not to mention the commercial and martial interest in more distant lands..

A 2nd le epic viking faction? Why?
 
What is the vision for Bannerlord? Battle sim with barebones mechanics? I find it is incredibly boring without 30 mods and even then it is nothing to write home about.
 
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