Jumping/Glitching - Yes or No?

[SCGavin]

Recently quite some people have used jumps or glitches to get to elevated positions (like roofs) from where they could use ranged weapons rather unhindered. They argue that everyone can access those positions by simple jumping and that shooting from those positions isn't the same as glitching. It's true, that one can access those positions by jumping onto certain structures, but some places are harder to reach then others.

Some roofs can be accessed if the player runs straight forward and jumps - which is rather quick and easy to accomplish. Often the place where the player needs to jump can be found rather easily, too.

Other roofs can only be accessed by more then one and harder jumps, that take longer. As far as I know only one player can do such a jump at a time. Consequently hostile archers who already are on that roof have an advantage, which can be considered unfair. The place where the player needs to jump and the procedure of how to jump, can't be seen as easily as in the first category.

Some players get annoyed by other players who take advantage of those elevated positions and shoot from there. If the game.mode is e.g. battle and the Jumper is the last living player of one team it can be quite annoying if the other team does not know how to get to that spot and has no ranged troops/weapons left.

So there is a problem when players use these spots and I wonder what you think about it.

Possible solutions for this issue could be:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Ban jumps
[*]Allow jumps
[*]Allow/ban jumps for certain servers (e.g. invent a Jump-Server like the Duel-Servers or the Melee-FF-Server or allow jumping for certain servers and forbid it generally)
[/list]

Spoiler: Example of such an occasion

Poll - Explanation for the options
Jumping onto roofs: the player jumps straight over a small area of air onto a roof
Superjumping onto roofs: includes exploiting glitches or bugs or those roofs where you have to walk over canvas to access them

Should jumping/superjumping be allowed?

Jumping onto roofs should be allowed    24 (39.3%)
Superjumping onto roofs should be forbidden    24 (39.3%)
Superjumping onto roofs should be allowed    7 (11.5%)
Jumping onto roofs should be forbidden    6 (9.8%)

Total Members Voted: 39

 

[Ruthven]

No way, it adds so much more variety to the game having a slick crossbowman that can't be reached easily; adds a whole new depth and strategy to the game. Besides, you could still hit him with a pike, or by jumping a horse.

 

[SCGavin]

No way, it adds so much more variety to the game having a slick crossbowman that can't be reached easily; adds a whole new depth and strategy to the game. Besides, you could still hit him with a pike, or by jumping a horse.

That guy in the picture maybe, but the roof above him is accessible as well. You can't get to him with a pike or horse in that case, unless you are on the roof yourself.

 

[Orion]

Considering some of the reactions in the server at the time, Gavin, you've taken a very level-headed and mature approach to this issue. Personally, I think infantry jumping has no place in Mount&Blade. It isn't practical to go leaping about on the battlefield. However, because jumping is here and there's no indication that it's going anywhere else, there's no reason not to use it within reason. Superjumping (exploiting a glitch that launches you high into the air if you jump on elevation changes) isn't acceptable in my opinion both as a player and an admin, and warnings/kicks will be issued on my part when such exploitation is observed.

Regarding that particular rooftop in the Village map, you know it is possible to reach it with a regular jump. It gives you access to two roofs, actually, and the top of an archway. Being up there gives you a commanding view of a large portion of the village. Unfortunately for attackers, there are only two ways up: the regular way, which only has room enough for one player to line up and jump at a time, and the superjump way, which involves exploiting a glitch. It does make for a very difficult challenge for any attackers, especially since jumping horses and pikes can't hit them so the only options are ranged weapons and jumping up your self. If played intelligently, the team defending the roof can kill all of the opposing archers and then pick off the infantry with impunity.

While this might sound like an intelligent move for the defenders, it's incredibly "gamey" and unrealistic. Especially in that scenario, where the "platform" you must jump onto is really linen cloths hanging on two clotheslines. The simple way to fix this and the superjump glitch would be to remove jumping period. It really isn't necessary: that's what stairs are for. I'd much prefer a "step over" option like in ArmA 2, where you press the button and if there's an obstacle in your way you take a high step over it. Jumping should really only be for clearing small obstacles anyways, and a "step over" option would accomplish the same thing without the potential for vertical abuse.

 

[CtrlAltDe1337]

These sorts of things are effective but quite lame.  I try not to use them often, and only in simple spots that can be easily accessed (also probably because I can't get to the complicated ones very often ).  I'd like some invisible barriers put up to keep people from doing this sort of thing, since I think its pretty cheap.  This is a beta so we are supposed to find these sorts of things, but imo they shouldn't be here.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

Somewhat relevant:

Most of the time, "superjumping" now causes a "warp" back to the original position of the jumper.  The warp happens a few seconds after the jump happens, so you THINK you're running around on a roof, but you're really still back in the alley.  If it's a fix for this, it's a bad one, because it causes a lot of accidental deaths, especially when jumping off of roofs or over small obstacles.

As for the question of whether it's a glitch, I'd say it's a pretty gray area.  I'm not above using it as a timesaver in traversing obstacles, and I wasn't against using it to clear that little wall in Village (you know the one) when it was possible.  However, when you've got players using it to get to areas other players can't -- or can't easily -- access, it's a pretty unfair advantage.

I'd say it's laming more than glitching, so while I'm not against kick polls for repeatedly extreme abuse of the bug, (I'd vote 1) I don't think it should be considered punishable by admins.  Too hard to draw a clear line.

 

[Kleidophoros]

Spoiler

he tried to get into that second story but couldn't.

The opposite roof of te one in your picture involves a super jump not the one you posted gavin.

 

[Alec{zacool}]

15% of the time when people are trying to get into roof spots, they launch way up into the air, and simply die from fall damage.

 

[PsykoOps]

Yeah ban them because all archers should just stand there on the streets so they can be impailed by cav... 

 

[eric virgo]

Well what stops anyone from becoming an archer or skirmisher and dealing with that sneaky roof rat anyway?

I say yes to taking advantage of your surroundings. YES YES YES a hundred times yes!
I had a great duel with a few dudes inside a stable last night. The horses couldn't move well enough between the support structure which gave me an advantage. Of course then, footmen discovered my location and came in and handed my hairy ass to me, but it was fun.
Also I took advantage of a fallen tree to disrupt the charging horses by jumping behind it every time a lancer came my way. When the horses came near they either reared up (which gave me enough time to kill the rider) or jumped over the tree to end up face first into the ruined wall beside the tree.
When the map fills with horses I always stay near walls and when I play as an archer I try to hide behind trees, fences and on porches. That way I avoid becoming fodder for those horse riding maniacs!
I also enjoy seeing people using the battlefield in smart ways. Holding passes, fighting horses on hillsides to decrease the speed advantage, staying close to structures that can provide cover etc...

But I am against any sort of technical exploit. If it makes sense in the real world to end up or a roof where it's difficult to be reached, then good for you mate!  But if you took advantage of the game mechanics (superjumps, clipping through walls etc) then you are an *******. 

It's as simple as that.


edit: Jumping is ok as long as it's more about climbing/mantling/step over/long jumping (roof to roof for example) instead of hopping high in the air vertically like a basketball player.

 

[PsykoOps]

Climbing to rooftops on village isn't a technically speaking glitching. It's just bit unfinished atm. They even have specifically made walkways so you can go abouts your business on the roofs.

 

[sadnhappy]

I say yes to places where you can jump with a normal jump or with the help of a horse. No glitching or bug abusing is allowed of course but that is another thing, a normal jump is not a bug in anyway, no matter where it leads the player. I say that all those places that one can get with just the normal jump are 100% ok.

 

[Kleidophoros]

The place where he is standing can be reached with normal jumps. using a clothes line. Is that okay?

 

[sadnhappy]

The place where he is standing can be reached with normal jumps. using a clothes line. Is that okay?

Okay since it has not been fixed to make it realistic. There are already few places that you can't jump on, the linen scaffoldings on Village for example. You can jump on one or two of them but not the rest. The devs have a lot more to do than fix the clothesline issue. I know it's silly, gamey and unrealistic but it's still jump is a regular feature of the game. It's not the jump features fault that clotheslines/fabric can hold the player.

 

[MaHuD]

I like it, and I think it should stay. But maybe not for all roofs.

 

[Hethwill]

The roof across the accessible roof from the wood ladders can only be reached if you jump higher than the height of your "human" model and can only be done in one side of the arch-house.

There are a few more spots where you can force a BIG aka. "super-jump". It's no problem being used but these spots should always be reported "as bugs/observations" for analysis from the developers, for, as everyone knows, several places have been made unaccessible after they've been reported, and some provoke the self-death.

 

[Plazek]

I really do not think it is a big deal.

 

[Timothy the Knight]

While it may be annoying, I say keep it. They might be harder to reach, but they can still be reached, and they are a lot more visible too, making them prime targets for enemy archers.

The clotheslines are indeed pretty damn ridiculous, though. But since we've got a shiny new physics engine, I think it can be fixed.

But exploiting glitches, that should definitely earn you a good thwack form the banhammer. It's frustrating to get hit by arrows that seem to materialize out of thin air.

Oh, and the dude in the screenies is most likely Black_Corsair. If you've ever played with him, you know that he uses every last dirty trick in the book to make you tear clumps of hair out of your head. But I gotta hand it to him, he's got skill. He dances on the line, but he never oversteps it and thus, never gets banned.

 

[22nd_Chuck_Norris]

Spoiler

Master of field

 

[tintontoe]

I agree with Chuck, master of the field can be your friend