Jumping/Glitching - Yes or No?

[SCGavin]

I agree with Chuck, master of the field can be your friend

While that is true, it is or can be annoying for the enemy team as well as for the spectators to wait and wait, because some players camp on those roofs. It takes some time until the master of the field poles appear and some more time for the flag to be raised. If the roof-campers leave when they are the last remaining players of their team or when non-jumping players of the opposing team ask the roof-campers to leave or accuse them of glitching (which maybe untrue - but that's not the point), they should leave. As long as they don't or only marginally impede the fun of other players, I'm fine with it, but when they become an annoyance and are told so, they should come down.

 

[Hethwill]

Only the devs can decide ultimately if it's to be fixed or not. We player testers have to report the odds and ends. That's the whole issue here.

 

[Reapy]

I like orion's suggestion of just having a fence/wall hop animation. You really don't want to jump in this game as infantry anyway. Sometimes people do it when attacking in melee to try to confuse their animation, but it really doesn't accomplish that often if at all. If you jump against an archer you pretty much get nailed every time. So just having a low hop to either climb or hurtle over designated obstacles would be great.

In terms of that village roof, I hate it. Even if you go the 'right' way up there, the jumps are buggy and mechanically odd. If someone is camping the roof up there I just don't bother going near them unless I'm an archer myself. For the village map they either need to remove the ability to get up there, or widen out the jumps to get there so they can be done quickly and consistently. Same with the village side ladder wall, map design needs to be changed to decide if it wants people going over/around that wall or not at all.

 

[Madnes5]

lets think of it in a different prespective first... when you jump, do you jump to reasonable places? i mean when you jump to climb a 5 foot wall i dont think it should be glitchnig but a 20 ft wall ok. then again when you fall from a 20 ft wall and you survive, shouldnt that be considered a glitch aswell?

 

[WhichDoctor]

Personally I don't like using those kinds of positions, partly because I like to be mobile when I'm an archer and once your up on one of those places you tend to be a bit vulnerable to other archers for my liking. But mostly because I find it really hard getting up to them and more often than not get killed by someone while in the attempt  .

On the basic issue I have no problem with archers running around on rooftops like on the village, its good fun and not unrealistic, but i find the site of people often in full armor essentially parkouring a little incongruous. Basically if you can get there by climbing up a ladder or dropping off a higher roof im ok with that but anything that requires feats of athletics to accomplish seems out of place in this game. I'm not saying people should be punished for it but I feel its something that should be discouraged by game design.

I also like the idea of removing 'jump' from the game, all its ever useful for is getting over small obstacles and its not always very good at that. If some kind of action that allows you to clamber over small obstacles could be introduced it would be far more useful and realistic while removing the problem of parkouring nights.

I also think a tweak of the distance you have to fall before taking damage would be good. If the result of missing a jump was losing half your health or even just getting down from one of these places resulted in taking damage it mite be less popular.

 

[Hanniba1]

I've been testing superjumping and other extensions of the physics engine extensively. I've have a few fraps clips of jumps that I want to make into an informational video. I'm testing these with the intent of figuring out the technical details and possible applications during gameplay.

These are my current observations:
Superjumping can be triggered on any ledge or incline the character can step on without jumping. To superjump press jump the instant you step onto the higher grade. After jumping its very common for the player to appear like they completed the superjump but then the view warps back to the ground. I usually call these visions for lack of a better word; they're frustrating but useful for seeing the potential outcome of a jump. This same warping can apply with reversed perspectives, initially a short jump then warping to the completed superjump spot. The height of a superjump is determined by the steepness of the second slope or the height of the step if the jump is off a flat object. Horse superjumping can be preformed the same way. As an addition to patch 6.70, characters will bounce off surfaces they collide with during a superjump rather than sliding up as they did previously.

On applications to gameplay, true superjumping is too hard to execute consistently to be usable in 90% of situations. The useful situations usually involve blindsiding an enemy in a ruin. Camping a group of archers on a superjumped location seems obvious but most spots provide worse cover than other locations that can be accessed without the risk of the archers failing to superjump for 3 minutes. Until multiple people can superjump consistently I think the threat of superjumping to casual gameplay is minimal.

I understand that concern most people feel about allowing meta techniques, but I think that the balanced aspect of super jumping warrants consideration for exploration and maybe use in game. I plan on super jumping in public games but not scrims until the issue is fully considered.

 

[Auscifer]

So there is a problem when players use these spots and I wonder what you think about it.

Most spots without stairs or a ladder should be off limits. I don't see how it is fair that someone must absorb 30 shots before reaching melee range. That is absurd. And people wonder why I carry two shields. This is why - because I have to deal with these wretched players.

In my opinion, many common spots do qualify as exploiting an unfair & unbalanced advantage. Ranged units were intended (imo) to get only a handful or even a dozen shots on an approaching enemy before melee range.

At the least it is poor sportsmanship and at the worst, exploiting. This thread needs a poll.

 

[PsykoOps]

Ranged units were intended (imo) to get only a handful or even a dozen shots on an approaching enemy before melee range.

 

 

[Night Ninja]

Unless there's a castle wall between them and the approaching melee units, of course.

 

[PsykoOps]

That's what's running is for 

 

[SCGavin]

This thread needs a poll.

Poll added.

 

[sadnhappy]

I agree with Chuck, master of the field can be your friend

While that is true, it is or can be annoying for the enemy team as well as for the spectators to wait and wait, because some players camp on those roofs. It takes some time until the master of the field poles appear and some more time for the flag to be raised. If the roof-campers leave when they are the last remaining players of their team or when non-jumping players of the opposing team ask the roof-campers to leave or accuse them of glitching (which maybe untrue - but that's not the point), they should leave. As long as they don't or only marginally impede the fun of other players, I'm fine with it, but when they become an annoyance and are told so, they should come down.

This is not dedicated to SCGavin personally, this is for all people who complain about jumping in this thread and/or the bad tactics or delaying the game.

I'm fine with it, but when they become an annoyance and are told so, they should come down.

Why? Sure I understand if it's 1 vs. 8 or something, I understand if the situation is unbeatable by the fewer players, but in evenly matched battles where the teams are even in the later stages of the match everything goes (apart from bug abuse and such, the real cheating methods). Being higher than someone else or jumping into a place that takes a bit more time or camping wisely is totally acceptable, especially if you can win that way. Why are people so impatient and short-tempered? Surely you can wait for few minutes and it's pretty much your fault if you die straight away in Battles.

I'm so annoyed to hear this constant rabble about 'bad tactics' or 'stop camping', especially when most of the time they are useful tactics and people win rounds. Waiting for MoF is a another sound tactic. It's quite arrogant to say to an archer to stop camping or stop going to the roofs; What else is the archer supposed to do? If the few players left win the round for your team, you should be praising them and thanking them, not taunting them of winning via so called 'cheap tactics'. That's like clans complaining about camping in clan matches, it doesn't get more stupid than than.

I'm a teamplayer first and foremost and I play for round/map victories even in public games at all times and I don't like when people play stupid and die straightaway and do not play for the team but I very rarely complain about it. Sure jumping in Village to certain place could be viewed as annoying but what'cha gonna do about it? Whine at the forums or have throwing weapons in your arsenal / jump after him / go as an archer/crossbowman and kill the guy? Standing on a wee ledge is like being a sitting duck.

 

[SCGavin]

This is not dedicated to SCGavin personally, this is for all people who complain about jumping in this thread and/or the bad tactics or delaying the game.

I never said it was. "I'm fine with it" is just meant to show that this is my opinion. It's not intended to say "This is what I think and what I think is right". As I don't see the point of including the opinions of others, when they can say so themselves, I share what I think. That doesn't or shouldn't stop others from sharing their opinion.

I'm fine with it, but when they become an annoyance and are told so, they should come down.

Why? [...]

I'm not referring to usual camping or tactics that involve strategic positions. What I'm referring to are players who camp on hard to reach positions which probably are not intended as accessible positions (like the rooftop where you have to walk over canvas to get there), can't be reached easily or quickly and furthermore might offer cover from ranged troops (the roof in village has spots where you can hide from ranged troops I believe). If someone camps on such a position, a position that is not verified as a legit part of the accessible map and stays there when asked with emphasis to come down, I firmly think that he should.

Camping in a accessible position of the map is just as legit as "spamming" and other frowned upon actions, as it is a part of the game that can hardly be considered as bug-abuse or something similar.

 

[sadnhappy]

I'm not referring to usual camping or tactics that involve strategic positions. What I'm referring to are players who camp on hard to reach positions which probably are not intended as accessible positions (like the rooftop where you have to walk over canvas to get there), can't be reached easily or quickly and furthermore might offer cover from ranged troops (the roof in village has spots where you can hide from ranged troops I believe). If someone camps on such a position, a position that is not verified as a legit part of the accessible map and stays there when asked with emphasis to come down, I firmly think that he should.

If one can go there without superjump or glitch, it's legit. If there was a part of the map that 'not verified as legit part', people couldn't go there. I'm hoping that the devs fix the linen and clothesline issue though. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favour of these places (as one could make the assumption) but if one can go there, then by all means. No one's gonna stop you from going there and telling other players what to not to do is kinda weird.

 

[Forgin]

I really wish Taleworlds but simply increase the height of these roofs so they simply can't be reached anymore. I think it's unfair to have roofs that are only accesible by doing several acrobatic jumps. Imo the only roofs that should be accesible are roofs that can be accesed by ladders, so anyone can easily get on them but the defending side still has the advantage.

And I do think it's fair to ban players who go to these places (accesible only by complicated but normal jumps), seeing as the majority indicates they do not like people using these roofs. If you continue using these roofs while knowing you piss off over 50% of the players, you are a real ****.

 

[sadnhappy]

If you continue using these roofs while knowing you piss off over 50% of the players, you are a real ****.

I still fail to see the logic behind that. I play a lot and I can't remember ever being called a **** for using the same options, same stuff available as every other player in this game. Using the basic, simple game mechanics such as jumping and walking that are mutual to everyone in this game is not a crime, nor a bug, nor glitching, nor bad behaviour nor stupid playing.

 

[Kalp]

Ban for jumping ? Are you kidding ? It is allowed, it is a part of game. Developer give us this map not other and smart player use all opportunities.

 

[Forgin]

If you continue using these roofs while knowing you piss off over 50% of the players, you are a real ****.

I still fail to see the logic behind that. I play a lot and I can't remember ever being called a **** for using the same options, same stuff available as every other player in this game. Using the basic, simple game mechanics such as jumping and walking that are mutual to everyone in this game is not a crime, nor a bug, nor glitching, nor bad behaviour nor stupid playing.

You don't think it's bad behaviour if you repeatedly do something of which more than 50% of the players has indicated it upsets them?
This has nothing to do with whether or not it's an exploit, and whether or not everyone can do it. The point is, you are ruining the gaming experience for a large group, and I call that bad behaviour.

 

[sadnhappy]

You don't think it's bad behaviour if you repeatedly do something of which more than 50% of the players has indicated it upsets them?
This has nothing to do with whether or not it's an exploit, and whether or not everyone can do it. The point is, you are ruining the gaming experience for a large group, and I call that bad behaviour.

If that ruins someone's game.. Sorry to say but then they've got some serious anger management issues and/or short temper. Man up and kill the guy is what I say. Getting as high as possible is a valid tactic and a solid strategy for any ranged fighter. To say otherwise is just stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs

I can see that scene implemented into Warband in my eyes. One dude is at the roofs in the Village, the other guy is on ground, shouting and taunting to each other.

EDIT: Voted for 'Jumping onto roofs should be allowed' and 'Superjumping onto roofs should be forbidden'

 

[SCGavin]

Ban for jumping ? Are you kidding ? It is allowed, it is a part of game. Developer give us this map not other and smart player use all opportunities.

Sorry. I did not mean to ask if normal jumping should be prohibited, but rather to ask if jumping onto roofs (where the player jumps straight over a small area of air onto a roof) or superjumping (includes exploiting glitches or bugs or those roofs where you have to walk over canvas to access them) should or shouldn't be.

I corrected and restarted the poll. If someone finds that those options can be misunderstood or could be formulated better, please say so.