Game breaking faction/kingdom snowballing balance problem

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Gunmars said:
Here is another timelapse of e1.0.5. Start of game to 1090, roughly 3 hours of no player interaction sim. This is the third run I have done for comparison between patches. I have done others since launch of game and can say the issues is getting better, still not flawless but much better.



In my experience just running these no player interaction sims there is definitely a trend of Factions that are weaker then others. From strongest to weakest for a best chance at a good sim while player progresses to Clan Rank 1 to join as mercenary.-

1- Vlandia
2- Southern Empire
3 Battania
4- Khuzait
5- Aserai
6- Sturgia
7- Northern Empire
8- Western Empire

By the time 1090 rolls around if one faction is dominant, not even taking a major city but castles seems to put them at a massive numerical advantage the opposing AIs can't counter, especially when they make poor decisions all the time like running their armies pass weaker enemy armies laying siege to a castle or city to raid a town. In the sim time lapse in this post I joined Battania as a merc to see the War stats and Khuzait had almost double the manpower of the Northern Empire, the next strongest faction. With this current AI and balance I don't see a plausible way for AI to effectively fight back against the dominant faction. Actual AI diplomacy, better threat awareness and decision making needs addressed. Random war and peace deals give a faux perception of political intrigue but it's way too off balance to be effective for long term campaigns.
Click to expand...


Interesting how Battania expanded then collapsed.
 
sherdil said:
Interesting how Battania expanded then collapsed.
Click to expand...

Was a combination of being in multiple wars at once and taking places like Poros and Vostrum, they are so far from their home territory the AI just couldn't sustain. I did also notice doing all this that AI lords prefer they own culture troops and will sometimes travel long distances to try to replenish instead of taking the local troops if they are severely low on manpower.
 
One of the problems with Southern Empire is that they only got to recruit tier 1 troops in all their villages.. If another nations conquers their fiefs , These nations can also recruit higher tier troops from those same fiefs. If the Southern nation conquers the land back, they can still only recruit tier 1 troops.

This causes the Southern empire to get wiped of the map as the first in almost all the games I played its been 5 up until now. After they lose there first big fight its over for the Southern Empire.

In all my games Khuzait just runs over Northern and Southern Empire as if there is no resistance from these factions. Even a war against those 2 simultaniously still end up in Khuzait predominant win. This was the case in 3/5 games. In 2 game the southern and northern empire were shared between Battania and Khuzait
 
I think that this is partly due to how NPCs spawn in with (or quickly and freely acquire) a comparatively large number of pre-trained troops. This causes there to be little to no cost to loosing armies.


A more fun change to fix this would be clans breaking off into their own kingdoms once they become powerful enough. Or banding together to split off if the ruling clan just takes all of the fiefs (im talking about you Urkhunati)
 
I have read now a lot of threads about the snowballingissue and for myself it is indeed gamebreaking right now. Nevertheless the devs are working on it and that is good news.
Reading all those threads and having already over 60h gameplay, my personal opinion is that:

There is not ONE faction that is overpowered. The factions seem balanced enough considered everything. Therefore the issue is a general and structural problem. How can they solve that? I have read a lot of good ideas so far but, again just my opinion, I think there is one thing that is lacking and at the same time it is basically the root of everything. It is two layered:

First the lack of diplomacy in the factions itself - for example effects of relations inbetween lords or the ruler, unhappy lords that might lead to rebellions etc. By the end of the EA they should have implemented at least some functions of innerstatepolitics.

Second: the lack of international diplomacy. I think the first steps here can be very easily implemented and I think we will see some changes here soon. Simple alliances against an overaggressors etc. I dont think we will see some sort of paradox diplomacy in the near future tho, like causus belli or revenge features. Maybe in the far future.

Most of the other things can be annoying indeed, but dont really solve the problem in the long run and do not bother me that much to be honest. Things like garrisons that starve to death, lords weird recruitementpaths, perks not working or a lot of bandits capturing lords. Those things can be solved easily and I am sure they will be sooner than later
 
Vendetta2.0 said:
I have read now a lot of threads about the snowballingissue and for myself it is indeed gamebreaking right now. Nevertheless the devs are working on it and that is good news.
Reading all those threads and having already over 60h gameplay, my personal opinion is that:

There is not ONE faction that is overpowered. The factions seem balanced enough considered everything. Therefore the issue is a general and structural problem. How can they solve that? I have read a lot of good ideas so far but, again just my opinion, I think there is one thing that is lacking and at the same time it is basically the root of everything. It is two layered:

First the lack of diplomacy in the factions itself - for example effects of relations inbetween lords or the ruler, unhappy lords that might lead to rebellions etc. By the end of the EA they should have implemented at least some functions of innerstatepolitics.

Second: the lack of international diplomacy. I think the first steps here can be very easily implemented and I think we will see some changes here soon. Simple alliances against an overaggressors etc. I dont think we will see some sort of paradox diplomacy in the near future tho, like causus belli or revenge features. Maybe in the far future.

Most of the other things can be annoying indeed, but dont really solve the problem in the long run and do not bother me that much to be honest. Things like garrisons that starve to death, lords weird recruitementpaths, perks not working or a lot of bandits capturing lords. Those things can be solved easily and I am sure they will be sooner than later
Click to expand...
This reflects my opinions too, I think more may be in the works in terms of revolts etc and empire scaling issues.

It seems quite easy in my experience to become incredibly rich and powerful by the end of 1087 anyway and to have a few holdings under your belt. by 1090 really you could easily BE the dominant power in the land - or declared yourself emperor. I think that if you do not engage in Calradian politics and warfare, one power gaining hegemony is inevitable. Current calradia isn't a stable system- they are in the midst of a civil war, unlike the clan disputes of m&b. There isn't an equilibrium being maintained. There is no reason for each kingdom not to dog pile the weakest.
 
Vendetta2.0 said:
I have read now a lot of threads about the snowballingissue and for myself it is indeed gamebreaking right now. Nevertheless the devs are working on it and that is good news.
Reading all those threads and having already over 60h gameplay, my personal opinion is that:

There is not ONE faction that is overpowered. The factions seem balanced enough considered everything. Therefore the issue is a general and structural problem. How can they solve that? I have read a lot of good ideas so far but, again just my opinion, I think there is one thing that is lacking and at the same time it is basically the root of everything. It is two layered:

First the lack of diplomacy in the factions itself - for example effects of relations inbetween lords or the ruler, unhappy lords that might lead to rebellions etc. By the end of the EA they should have implemented at least some functions of innerstatepolitics.

Second: the lack of international diplomacy. I think the first steps here can be very easily implemented and I think we will see some changes here soon. Simple alliances against an overaggressors etc. I dont think we will see some sort of paradox diplomacy in the near future tho, like causus belli or revenge features. Maybe in the far future.

Most of the other things can be annoying indeed, but dont really solve the problem in the long run and do not bother me that much to be honest. Things like garrisons that starve to death, lords weird recruitementpaths, perks not working or a lot of bandits capturing lords. Those things can be solved easily and I am sure they will be sooner than later
Click to expand...
I've actually noticed that sturgia and the north and west empire seem to always lose. never seen them actually snowball
 
Everyone has an other snowball nation in their game. Some say battania, some khuzanit or southern empire or battania. Again, I think that has more to do with structural problems and geography.
 
Last edited:
Vendetta2.0 said:
Everyone has an other snowball nation in their game. Some say battania, some khuzanit or southern empire or battania. Again, I think that has more to do with structural problems and geography.
Click to expand...
Yeah, in my vanilla (no mod) game, it's my faction that is now snowballing. Started after they put a minor snowballing fix in patch 1.05/1.06 then just continued since.

h5zaWXB.png


It's boring now to continue the save as I just steamroll other factions. About to wipe out the Khuzait now.
 
To me it's still a little too off. Usually one or two factions are gutted way to early for my taste but it's much better than it was early on.
 
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