Continental Europe Factions (France, HRE, Hungary, Poland, Teutonic Order)

[detlik]

well, it's cool you researched some bohemian nobles, but sadly enough those two guys won't fit into the mod.
the problem with Zawisch is that he was born around 1250, so he's a seven years old boy in 1257 (the year of the mod). while he became very important later on, he won't make an all too respectable lord for the mod...
and Hynek wasn't even born in 1257.
for further research you might search for lords of an earlier generation.

Ok found one more that should fit hopefully (will spend hours tomorrow on research)

Boreš from Riesenburk/Boreš z Rýzmburka
Born 1226 died 1277
Czech Noble, while reign of Wenceslaus I of Bohemia he was highest marshall of czech kingdom, and while reign of Ottokar highest lord in waiting. He had brother Slávek from Osek who became abbot in Osek church and their father Bohuslav from Hrabischitz was highest royally lord in waiting. And he had grandfather Slávek from Hrabischitz

He came from noble house of Hrabischitz, he estabilished castle Riesenburk. He had two sons Slávek from Riesenburk and Bohuslav from Risenburk (sorry dont know how to translate these two). Bohuslav had wife Agáta from Šumburk, daughter of Fridrich of Šumburk. After Boreš died Fridrich became trustee of his sons.

Boreš had huge estates not only in Czech (Osek,Krásno) but on Moravia as well (for example : Slavkov, Moravská Třebová, Horní Němčí)

About year 1267 he estabilished north of Třebařov Augustinian church Maria Kron.

In early 1248 part of czech nobility revolted, they were angry with reign of Wenceslaus I of Bohemia and they on 31. July 1248 selected Ottokar as their king. Havel from Lemberk, Ojíř from Friedberk and some others remained loyal to Wenceslaus. On august 1249 is made peace and Wenceslaus is again on throne.

In 1260 there were battle at Kressenbrunn where Boreš lead army and they defeated Hungarian army. He retrieved relic - finger of John the Baptist.

After unsuccessful revolt in year 1275/6 along with Zawisch von Falkenstein and Witigonen against Ottokar, he was captured and on year 1277 executed.

He was known as Boreš II. Hrabišic or Boreš from Osek.

If someone is unhappy with translation I mainly got my materials from here http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bore%C5%A1_z_R%C3%BDzmburka
but sadly its only in czech.

 

[Colombo]

Vzhledem k tomu, že síla Českého království byla v té době rovna zbytku SŘŘ, Maďarsku, byla mnohem větší než polsko a různé baltské národy, skoti nebo welšané (které jsou v tomhle módu zastoupeni), tak vůbec nechápu, proč v tomhle módu není jako samostatné království ale jen jako nepodstatná část SŘŘ.

 

[othr]

Vzhledem k tomu, že síla Českého království byla v té době rovna zbytku SŘŘ, Maďarsku, byla mnohem větší než polsko a různé baltské národy, skoti nebo welšané (které jsou v tomhle módu zastoupeni), tak vůbec nechápu, proč v tomhle módu není jako samostatné království ale jen jako nepodstatná část SŘŘ.

That may very well be true, but the policy of the Bohemian Kingdom was to get deeply involved in the matters of the HRE.  That's why I didn't make it a separate kingdom (keep in mind I only understood about 30% of your post so I hope my reply will make sense).

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Hi,
I am kinda new to these forums, but if you wouldnt mind I would want to have suggestion. I come from Czech Republic and I would love if there would be some lords from czech history (Sadly, I know that czech republic wasnt kingdom in this time but part of bigger kingdom).

Well, it was a kingdom. As far as I know, Bohemia is Czech in Czech. The only kingdom withing the Holy Roman Empire.

Actually, it comes from the german "Böhmen" AFAIK.

In German, but Czechs don't speak German, they speak Czech, and in Czech, Bohemia is called Czechy.

 

[Colombo]

Vzhledem k tomu, že síla Českého království byla v té době rovna zbytku SŘŘ, Maďarsku, byla mnohem větší než polsko a různé baltské národy, skoti nebo welšané (které jsou v tomhle módu zastoupeni), tak vůbec nechápu, proč v tomhle módu není jako samostatné království ale jen jako nepodstatná část SŘŘ.

That may very well be true, but the policy of the Bohemian Kingdom was to get deeply involved in the matters of the HRE.  That's why I didn't make it a separate kingdom (keep in mind I only understood about 30% of your post so I hope my reply will make sense).

Just read it as "mumlymumlythat'snotfairmumlymumly"
I just don't like HRE as state. I just feel, that reality was mutch more complex and should be simulated in different way. Such as 3 major sides in HRE. Don't know, if there could be any events like in EU3, that would affect status of this three branches with creating HRE as centralized state.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Vzhledem k tomu, že síla Českého království byla v té době rovna zbytku SŘŘ, Maďarsku, byla mnohem větší než polsko a různé baltské národy, skoti nebo welšané (které jsou v tomhle módu zastoupeni), tak vůbec nechápu, proč v tomhle módu není jako samostatné království ale jen jako nepodstatná část SŘŘ.

That may very well be true, but the policy of the Bohemian Kingdom was to get deeply involved in the matters of the HRE.  That's why I didn't make it a separate kingdom (keep in mind I only understood about 30% of your post so I hope my reply will make sense).

Just read it as "mumlymumlythat'snotfairmumlymumly"
I just don't like HRE as state. I just feel, that reality was mutch more complex and should be simulated in different way. Such as 3 major sides in HRE. Don't know, if there could be any events like in EU3, that would affect status of this three branches with creating HRE as centralized state.

Many of you think that the HRE in the XIIIth Century is like the HRE in the XVth Century, and that's plain wrong. If the HRE should be divided, it wouldn't make sense to do it in a EUIII way, because there would be tens, maybe thousands, of states. If anything, you would need to divide it into Gueplhs and Ghibellines; that it, two imperial factions.

In 1250, the Empire had no Emperor, because the self-electing system still was not established yet. It will be at the beginning of the XIVth Century with the Golden Bull. Before that, the Emperor needed to be elected by the Diet and crowned by the Pope. After the Golden Bull, a college of 7 electors (the archbishops of Mainz, Trier and Köln, the King of Bohemia, the Duke of Saxony and the Margrave of Brandenburg) elected the emperor with no need of Papal crowning.

The conflicts between Guelphs and Ghibellines were one of the causes for the lack of an Emperor. The Imperial princes were divided between supporting the Ghibellines or supporting the Pope's choice (which became Charles d'Anjou's choice around 1275).

Any Feudal monarchy was much more complex than the monolythic states that M&B allows us to portray, and the HRE, as the archetype of a Feudal state, is no exception. We'll have to stick to it, unless we want to make a faction for every grand dynasty (the House of Blois, the House of Bourgogne, the House of Wettin, the House of Braunschweig, the House of Montcada, the House of Lara, the House of Warenne, the House of Wallace, the House of Balliol, the House of Montferrato, the House of Ascania... ).

It would be cool to get a way to link the several families to a certain king, in a vassalage way like in Crusader Kings..,. but that would turn this mod into a different game than M&B.

 

[Rule zum Rabensang]

In 1250, the Empire had no Emperor, because the self-electing system still was not established yet. It will be at the beginning of the XIVth Century with the Golden Bull. Before that, the Emperor needed to be elected by the Diet and crowned by the Pope. After the Golden Bull, a college of 7 electors (the archbishops of Mainz, Trier and Köln, the King of Bohemia, the Duke of Saxony and the Margrave of Brandenburg) elected the emperor with no need of Papal crowning.

I agree to your post in general, especially about the problem of dividing the HRE factionwise. as i said before, the mod's scale is not very appropriate for that, and like you said, we could then divide nearly every faction into several subfactions...
Just a few details: the Golden Bull was granted in 1356, so it's more mid-XIVth century  . the double election of 1256/1257 was the first election of a roman-german king where the seven princes later called the prince electors were the only princes who elected the king. so it's an important episode in the long evolution of the collegiate of electors that was then finished with the Golden Bull in 1356. and after 1356, the prince electors still elected the king, not the emperor. up to Friedrich III. every roman-german king wanting to become emperor needed to be crowned by the pope. Maximilian I. in 1508 was the first to call himself "elected roman emperor", and his successors were made emperor as a direct consequence of their election as kings without any need of further coronation (so you can say that they were elected emperors since 150.

 

[Havicker]

are you guys planning on adding the county of flanders?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Flanders#Flag_and_Arms

please reply

As much as I would love to see our beloved Flanders in this game.
I think we would probably be too small,
and also more importantly, if I'm not mistaken, we were a vassal of France in that time.

May i suggest changing some things here !
Switch Brussels and name it Ghent (since Brussels was not a part off Flanders !
Ghent as a castle and take Bruggen as a village besides (that in NNW position) in staid off Leuwen that is not in Flanders also !
(Brussels and Leuven are Brabant not Flanders)

Actually Dunqercke, the harbor toward England was also a part off Flanders, England being one off the major commercial partners off Flanders !!!

Yes we were a vasal of FRANCE, not HRE !

May i even suggest putting a city some fortresses and villages in for Flanders, yes even on a small spot like that !
City Ghent with villages Kortrijk,  Deinze, Hulst.
2 or 3 Castles
Castle:Bruggen with village Damme (Bruggen 'the venice off the north' with its new front port Damme)
Castle: Duinkerken(Dunkerque)  with village Nieuwpoort (as major ports in those times)
3th Rijsel with village Ieper.

The link above will tell you why !!!  Between 1250 - 1700, it was one off the most prosperious and important commercial regions in europe !!!
FLANDERS WAS EVEN MORE PROSPERIOUS THAN THE REGION OFF PARIS (it was richer than it's king !)
and had commericial relations (caravans) going all over Europes cities !

Please do contact me if you need detailed ideas ! 

As for units one that comes to mind are the famous Flanders Crossbows and archers.
Also famous is our macemen with the club called 'goedendag' !

 

[Cpt.Manco]

If I'm not mistaken, Leuven (which really shouldn't be called Loëwen) and Brussels are part of the HRE in the mod..
Exchanging them for Ghent/Bruges wouldn't work or make sense, as the county of Flanders was a French vassal at the time (regardless of how independent minded and rich the counts and cities were). Except for a relatively small part surrounding Aalst that was part of the HRE.

Regardless, you do have a point that Flanders is not represented in the mod (independent or as part of France), rather strange given its importance in the region. If you ever decide to add something, I wouldn't mind looking up what exactly the most important locations were in 1257 in Flanders.

 

[Rule zum Rabensang]

Brussels was part of the Duchy of Brabant who (at least nominally) belonged to the HRE (even if the Dukes were experienced in switching loyalities between the roman-german and french kings).

 

[katsura]

Regarding maps I miss Polish Kalisz and Sieradz, at that time the two cities was essential for the country.*

*Google Translator

 

[Havicker]

Ok you guys are right regarding to Brussels and Leuven, Brabant and HRE

I gess there is little space to implement all off Flanders on this map, concidering the size, but leaving it out totally is also not realy an option i gess . . .  .

The crampy space is limiting the options ...

Could settle for Ghent as castle with village(s) Bruggen (as Bruges was called those days) (and  Hulst).

 

[Havicker]

With the new bigger map coming we could maybe come to my original plan with city and castles !!! 

To modding team: "if you need info or whatever toward implementing Flanders, Brabant, Luik, Holland, ... low countries, please contact me and i ll provide. 

 

[KooMar]

I would just like to say few things regarding Hungary (more specific the territory of Croatia). I don't know if someone has suggested it. If it is, than pleace accept my deepest apologiez for double-posting.

1. I would very much like to see Zadar, Knin and maybe Dubrovnik. Why? They had a great influence (especially Zadar) on Croatian and Hungarian economy and politics.
2. I would like to see Croatian heraldy only in parts of former Kingdom of Croatia - there is no point that nobility of Hungary wear it because it is a Croatian symbol.č Don't get me wrong, I would like to see Hungarian heraldy on it's nobility, too.
3. Croatia also had more influential nobles in that period. Pure example would be the House of Šubić - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0ubi%C4%87#Members_of_the_House_of_.C5.A0ubi.C4.87

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_I_%C5%A0ubi%C4%87_of_Bribir

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mladen_II_%C5%A0ubi%C4%87_of_Bribir

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_III_%C5%A0ubi%C4%87_of_Bribir

4. Also, maybe some kind of territorial authonomy since Croatian nobility was only in personal union with Kingdom of Hungary at that time. For example, "Paul Šubić, Duke of Croatia" would be good, just like there are cases with HRE nobility.

I hope that this post was constructive and well elaborated so that we could see these suggestions added in next release - at least some of them.

Thank you in advance.


Best regards.

 

[HolyOne]

1. I would very much like to see Zadar, Knin and maybe Dubrovnik. Why? They had a great influence (especially Zadar) on Croatian and Hungarian economy and politics.

I agree, but the map is not finished yet, for example, there is no Venice (city and/or faction). And the Dalmatian coast was constantly a source of conflict between Hungary and Venice. Zadar changed possession many times too, and I think it was Venetian in the time of the scenario, just like Split.
You could help the modders by researching these cities/castles/villages, nobles, their heraldry.

 

[KooMar]

I'll gladly help as much as I can. First of all, little bit of information about Croatian heraldy. Here you can also find something about Croatian heraldy throughout medieval times and the link between Croatia and Catholic Church - Popes, to be more precise. To sum it up - original Croatian heraldy started with white field.

Little more about heraldies

Some info about Kingdom of Croatia and it's union with Kingdom of Hungary.

Here are some informations about Zadar in medieval ages.

Little bit about Knin.

 

[bluechain]

HRE map till about 1250, for locations if alternate ones are needed.

Spoiler

 

[pchalk]

HRE map till about 1250, for locations if alternate ones are needed.

Spoiler

what are the plans for the HRE in the mod? are u guys gunna expand it based on this map or u plan on separating it in to the member factions

 

[othr]

I don't have any such plans.  I'm satisfied with it the way it is.

 

[Ensis]

Regarding maps I miss Polish Kalisz and Sieradz, at that time the two cities was essential for the country.*

*Google Translator

I confirm, both cities were important for the economy , the policy and history of the state, and after behind this on the map in that circle is  the emptiness not natural .


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalisz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sieradz