Finally it's not a gamble when you are trying to stop a horse. Right now spears are working as they should be, hell I will go one stop forward and say it's probably a bit to easy right now to fight off cavalry when you have a spear.
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1.5 feedback from DM
- Thread starter Hairless
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That was the whole point of the nerf. Archers are complaining about realistic bow mechanics. On 1.4 Archery was like a Gun (a SG550) instand shooting. Now you have to wait and aim like with a real bow. IMO the reload Nerf should be placed on top of that as well, but I take what I get.
I agree with almost everything else. Imo Shield should brake fast. Because in midieval times your shield was useless once an Axt hit it or a two hander. Also someone posted a Video of what happens when a pilum hits a shields. I think we need hidden mechanics like shields get reduced dmg from arrows but extra dmg from axes and two handers. Strong shield take less dmg from them. I also like the melee changes or maybe its just because I am a way better fighter then on 1.4
Clan one.
Aprikosenmann
Knight
Your complete post is useless since you are only arguing with realism...
This is a computer game which priorities fun.
Aprikosenmann
Knight
That sounds great. I am surprised that Inf/Cav/Archers are more balanced than before but I gotta believe you.
Would be cool that if your shield get hit by pila (throwing spear), you cant use that shield further, first you need to drop it on ground, and get that pilum from it (with some long animation 3-5 seconds). So that if it was random throw from long distance, then you will have time to get your shield back, and if it close combat throw, you need to fight further without shield, or with trophey shield from the ground, if there is any)
Because anyway heavy infantry now getting only 1 pila (and cost 160 instead of 140), why dont give it some cool feature. =)
If you have opted into 1.5 and installed, just log in and any server there is 1.5 server.
Unsure as to what this 'double spam' glitch is, but if it's similar to warband's double spam, then it's always nice to add a new element of skill, if the player has high enough momentum to perform another attack before their opponent, then that's cool, just like the best game ever made (Warband) has it. Unsure if it's similar though.
I can't differentiate between the two games but it is exactly the same in Warband as I would describe it. You can do it with the right swing too I'm pretty sure and has to do with being in the correct "sTaNcE". The few duels we had on the 1.5 server you did it out of instinct from Warband, it wasn't quite possible on 1.4.3 because the ready speed was a little slow.
I'm reluctant to call it a glitch because I'm sure with a little more practise it will be easy as **** to kick people trying to do it on me.
Kicks: Agreed
Throwables & Archery: Like you said, I believe a nerf was needed but what we got was a bit overzealous. I'd suggest either lowering the 'accuracy chargeup' by around 50% on both or going for what you suggested, lower damage on throwing and lower draw/reload speed for archers and crossbows
Movement speed and swing speed: I'm not sure on this one yet if I'm honest, will have to play & test more.
Block delay: As you said, pretty good right now
Shields: Agreed
Twohanders and Crushthrough: I personally don't mind twohanders having a place in the meta, but they shouldn't be as dominant as it will likely end up becoming now. Crushthrough should be limited to very few weapons (Warband had it only on hammers, and that'd be fine with me) and swingspeed should be a little lower than it is now - as fast as onehanders or slightly slower.
Cavalry: Feels quite good right now, but I sometimes feel like couch lanced damage is a bit out of my control as a cavalry as the calculation seems to take into account the victims movement direction quite heavily (made a thread about it here) and I'd like to see that adjusted a bit.
I feel like overall we're on a good track with this update, though. There's quite a few meaningful changes here, though some still need some adjustments - but hey, that's what the beta is for.
Throwables & Archery: Like you said, I believe a nerf was needed but what we got was a bit overzealous. I'd suggest either lowering the 'accuracy chargeup' by around 50% on both or going for what you suggested, lower damage on throwing and lower draw/reload speed for archers and crossbows
Movement speed and swing speed: I'm not sure on this one yet if I'm honest, will have to play & test more.
Block delay: As you said, pretty good right now
Shields: Agreed
Twohanders and Crushthrough: I personally don't mind twohanders having a place in the meta, but they shouldn't be as dominant as it will likely end up becoming now. Crushthrough should be limited to very few weapons (Warband had it only on hammers, and that'd be fine with me) and swingspeed should be a little lower than it is now - as fast as onehanders or slightly slower.
Cavalry: Feels quite good right now, but I sometimes feel like couch lanced damage is a bit out of my control as a cavalry as the calculation seems to take into account the victims movement direction quite heavily (made a thread about it here) and I'd like to see that adjusted a bit.
I feel like overall we're on a good track with this update, though. There's quite a few meaningful changes here, though some still need some adjustments - but hey, that's what the beta is for.
AVRC
Sergeant at Arms
So I guess it's my time to post some feedback.
Kicks:
Current kicks feels good and balanced. Slow down on the animation, making the window to punish someone bigger was best nerf they could possibly get. They are still viable, but not blatantly overpowered. Tho slow down on the side movement makes it harder to escape them even after nerfs.
Throwables:
In 1.4.3 throwing weapons were to overpowered and they were shining the most on the battlefield. Nerf was needed, but I don't think nerf that big. Yes, right now throwing from close distance is most of the time one way ticket to respawn and thats probably how it should be, but nerfing the focus on accuracy momentum makes them unsatisfactory and unfun to play. What I think should happen instead is tremendous nerf to dmg, for example body hit from a jareed should be around 20 and a headshot around 40. Pilas and long throwing spears should still one hit on headshot. So I'd say revoke the accuracy nerf and actually nerf the dmg on them.
Archery:
Very similiar situation to throwing weapons, right now it's unsatisfactory and unfun to play. Instead of making it like this, what should happen instead is slow down of draw/reload animation. I am not an archer main by any mean, but every DM archer is dissapointed in how it is right now.
Movement speed and swing speed:
It's horrible right now. As the 1.4.3 was definitely to fast, then 1.5.0 is definitely to slow. This major slow down on both swings and movement speed turned any infantry vs infantry into a "who is gonna be first in the right side of opponent will get almost guaranteed double hit". You either spam from right or left side, and that's bassicly it. If you try moving to sides instead of straight walking into your enemy sides, you will end up spammed, cuz your enemy will walk into your left or right side. Both swings and movement need to be speed-up to the point of meeting in beetwen 1.4.3 speed and 1.5.0 speed. Keeping it like this makes the fight simply boring and repetetive.
Little combat compilation from 1.5:
Block delay:
It feels great right now. Not sure if it's beacuse of the slow down or actuall reducing the delay itself, but it's just good. Tho as shieldless duels feels good, the very shield vs shield fight seems very poor and boring as stated above. Game is not only about duels. If this block delay was like this in 1.4.3, then 1.5.0 combat rebalance wouldn't be needed.
Shields:
As shield hp nerf was needed, cuz in 1.4.3 shields were definitely to strong, then here empire and vlandia kite shields are way to inferior compared to light Battania/Sturgia ones. There is great disproportion between them and it needs to be fixed. What I suggest is making the Vlandia and Empire ones 140 hp instead of 120 hp.
Vlandia/Empire
Battania
Sturgia
2 handed weapons:
BROKEN. Their current swing speed is way to superior compared to one hand with shields. Compare that with their movement speed which is also way to superior and bam, here we are slowly shaping the 2-handed meta on both skirmishes and competetive. What should happen? 2 handed weapons can't be faster than 1 handed ones. They either have to be same speed, or slower than 1 handed weapons. Right now it's almost pointess to play heavy-infantry, when you can do triple spawn second round as turbo fast/decent armor with a 2 hand of doom class. Also crushthrough need to go. Either remove it or limits it to 2 handed maces. If you want to keep it on everything, then you need to slow down 2 handed weapons significantly. Also beacuse of this change teamfights are way to fast, a random 2 hand running around dealing 70 dmg on hit. That's not how the teamfights should work, we are not in arcade game, it's a medieval high skill capped battlefield.
Video from DM vs RS teamfights on 1.5:
Teamfights are way to boring and fast on 1.5. It needs to be changed asap.
Cav:
Cavalry nerfs were definitely needed. Cav right now seems like a high-skill class, not a tank smashing through countless number of infantries. It's a very good change.
Good changes:
-kicks,
-block delay,
-cav.
-economy.
Bad changes
-throwables,
-archery,
-shields,
-movement and swing speed,
-2 handed weapons.
Summary: After enough testing I can tell that meta is gonna shift into heavy 2 hand focused. There were some steps made in right direction, but overall 1.5 actually feels like an unstable cluster****. Seems like 1.4.3 was better patch. I guess we traded kick throws cancer for 2 hands abuse.
Forgot to mention. Clan system is best feature, but god fix the face problem, cuz game seems to render everyone as hairless goblins x).
Thanks for the feedback.
- We are discussing about throwables, reading all feedback and suggestions so far.
- Empire and Vlandia Heavy Inf Light shields were equipped wrong, that will be fixed with the hotfix.
- Most of the spamming in the video was with the Battania Axe which had a way higher swing speed than intended. That will also be fixed with the hotfix.
- I would say 2-Handed Weapons beating down Heavy Infantry is intended, it is just that the counter to Shock Troops were over-nerfed that is creating the problem. We want to create the environment where, switching to Skirmishers/Archers when your Heavy Infantry is getting beaten by Shock Troops should give you the upper hand in battle.
- For movement and swing speeds, I would suggest giving the patch some more time as players get accustomed to the changes.
- We are looking into crushthrough to make sure there are no unexpected scenarios.
- There were some unexpected Horse Rearing in some scenarios, that is also being looked into.
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PLEASE REMOVE CRUSH FROM ALL 2 HANDERS
Don't remove it, make it captain only instead. From what I heard, the reason it was put in the game at all was because shock infantry wasn't effective enough in captain mode. It's been said so many times, but again, different modes have to be balanced differently.
I agree with kicks and slow combat . But i disagree with 2 handed and archery.
1) Two handed is not broken now. It is usable. At last we can use two handed weapon on serious clanwars not only for fun like in warband and early bannerlord. Two handed requares a high skill and can be easily countered with good teamplay. And you still cant crush through shields.
2) Archery is not bad now, it is just different. Now you should aim a little longer but you have decent accuracy and damage for that.
1) Two handed is not broken now. It is usable. At last we can use two handed weapon on serious clanwars not only for fun like in warband and early bannerlord. Two handed requares a high skill and can be easily countered with good teamplay. And you still cant crush through shields.
2) Archery is not bad now, it is just different. Now you should aim a little longer but you have decent accuracy and damage for that.
Shock infantry is now way too effective in captain mode. The shield + crush through makes it demolish any class, because they all have pikes as well
Alyss made a video on this matter.
Edit. I think ar least I think it is what they were talking about. Havent played this beta yet
Revverie
-we dont want crush through
×here's crush through
-we didnt wanted it we still dont want it
×yeah there are unexpected scenarios we're checking it
×here's crush through
-we didnt wanted it we still dont want it
×yeah there are unexpected scenarios we're checking it
