1.5 feedback from DM

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Don't remove it, make it captain only instead. From what I heard, the reason it was put in the game at all was because shock infantry wasn't effective enough in captain mode. It's been said so many times, but again, different modes have to be balanced differently.
I would like to see their faces once they realise that the captain bots will almost never crush through anyways.

1. They rarely swing from top
2. They dont keep the necessary distance to get crushthough
3. They dont hold they swing from top

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Maybe crush through isn't the issue.
I spent only a couple of hours on Beta yesterday, but the only two handed weapon that really seems problematic is the voulge and probably the menavlion, too.
I tried the Berserker's mace because I thought of any weapon has crush through it has to be this one.
But the range is bad and it's too slow. Atleast for me.
I think crush through as a problem is mainly restricted to weapons that are both fast and long.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

  • We are discussing about throwables, reading all feedback and suggestions so far.
  • Empire and Vlandia Heavy Inf Light shields were equipped wrong, that will be fixed with the hotfix.
  • Most of the spamming in the video was with the Battania Axe which had a way higher swing speed than intended. That will also be fixed with the hotfix.
  • I would say 2-Handed Weapons beating down Heavy Infantry is intended, it is just that the counter to Shock Troops were over-nerfed that is creating the problem. We want to create the environment where, switching to Skirmishers/Archers when your Heavy Infantry is getting beaten by Shock Troops should give you the upper hand in battle.
  • For movement and swing speeds, I would suggest giving the patch some more time as players get accustomed to the changes.
  • We are looking into crushthrough to make sure there are no unexpected scenarios.
  • There was some unexpected Horse Rearing in some scenarios, that is also being looked into.

I completely agree, shock troops should stay deadly and archers must be tuned in a way they can still be shock troop's natural nemesis. People need to keep in mind how squishy these classes are. I was documenting my personal stats for death causes and kills playing shock troop. Most of my death were done in 2 hits from 1h , 1 hits average from 2h. My kills were one hits on low armored ennemies, but 3 to 4 hits were necessary to kill heavy infs.
 
@AVRC And what about the archery nerf that you guys did?

If you want everyone to stop playing archer then you should keep it as it is. If you want people to enjoy archery again, I suggest keeping the nerf but at least making it feel more consistent because playing archery feels like taking a massive dump at the moment; you don't know when its gonna shoot out
 
@AVRC And what about the archery nerf that you guys did?

If you want everyone to stop playing archer then you should keep it as it is. If you want people to enjoy archery again, I suggest keeping the nerf but at least making it feel more consistent because playing archery feels like taking a massive dump at the moment; you don't know when its gonna shoot out
When we make a decisions we will probably have a similar adjustment for archery as well.
 
The movement is much better imo, it means people can't fling around players due to the high amount of acceleration. There's no floaty movement anymore, because of this new change, which was a large issue from the get-go

This is low-key the best feature of 1.5

Not the block delay fix, not the throwing weapon nerf, not the cav or archery adjustments, but the tweaks in acceleration speed is the best change.

No more zipping around like a hummingbird, fights are actually grounded.

That being said, I think the max infantry speed relative to max archer speed still needs to be looked in to.
 
I agree with kicks and slow combat . But i disagree with 2 handed and archery.
1) Two handed is not broken now. It is usable. At last we can use two handed weapon on serious clanwars not only for fun like in warband and early bannerlord. Two handed requares a high skill and can be easily countered with good teamplay. And you still cant crush through shields.
2) Archery is not bad now, it is just different. Now you should aim a little longer but you have decent accuracy and damage for that.
We broke through a Pavise shield (7weight) with a Voulge(if I remember correctly,) and my friend got consistant crushthroughs after about 3 min of testing, I dont agree its a high skill move, and if teamplay is required to counter it, its broken. Best way to counter the two handers at the moment seems to be facehugging, but since they get higher movement speed, thats not easy either. My friend just jumped away from the fights and overheaded and I had to chase him. Not fun to fight against.
Can we get a weight stat for weapons at some point?
 
Don't remove it, make it captain only instead. From what I heard, the reason it was put in the game at all was because shock infantry wasn't effective enough in captain mode. It's been said so many times, but again, different modes have to be balanced differently.
+1
Hairless explain everything nothind to add.
 
+1
Hairless explain everything nothind to add.

IDK how you can say shock inf isn’t effective in captain when the captain meta has been 5 shock inf and 1 heavy inf on almost every faction. Where is Brandis Reddit post he made? Shock inf has been cracked in captain for months.

Please remove crush through.
 
Ive completely changed my mind about throwing weapons. I thought at first that they were overnerfed, but they are still extremely effective with only slight changes to timing. Holding the mouse for a half second longer returns throwing weapons to almost identical to their old accuracy. They can still be very good, but now they are much less spammable and more fun to fight against.
 
Ive completely changed my mind about throwing weapons. I thought at first that they were overnerfed, but they are still extremely effective with only slight changes to timing. Holding the mouse for a half second longer returns throwing weapons to almost identical to their old accuracy. They can still be very good, but now they are much less spammable and more fun to fight against.
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Ive completely changed my mind about throwing weapons. I thought at first that they were overnerfed, but they are still extremely effective with only slight changes to timing. Holding the mouse for a half second longer returns throwing weapons to almost identical to their old accuracy. They can still be very good, but now they are much less spammable and more fun to fight against.
Yeah they still can be really good but thats a RNG thing now. Those instant meele throws works as before but the aim does not decide. I just hope the thing randomly connects. Same for close range archer shots.

They want us to stand still while throwing however this leads to reduced missile speed and reduced damage. I thinl its still better to run and hope for the rng god.
 
Yeah they still can be really good but thats a RNG thing now. Those instant meele throws works as before but the aim does not decide. I just hope the thing randomly connects. Same for close range archer shots.

They want us to stand still while throwing however this leads to reduced missile speed and reduced damage. I thinl its still better to run and hope for the rng god.
Running and throwing feels very similar to how it always has, the difference now is you just have to hold the button for a second longer before you release.
 
Running and throwing feels very similar to how it always has, the difference now is you just have to hold the button for a second longer before you release.
No, the accuracy while running got reduced by a noticable amount. I am missing standing archers 4 meters from behind now.
Or did they revert it? This is my experience from the beta.
 
No, the accuracy while running got reduced by a noticable amount. I am missing standing archers 4 meters from behind now.
Or did they revert it? This is my experience from the beta.
The cone of fire is definitely smaller than it was in Warband. They also pumped projectile speed up noticeably, so it is much harder for people to dodge out of the way if a projectile is on target at medium range.
 
The archer nerf looks to me as the strategy old film makers had for avoiding censorship: you present first an exaggerated version of what you want, then you go to a mild version of that and everyobdy ends up happy with the changes.
 
Don't remove it, make it captain only instead. From what I heard, the reason it was put in the game at all was because shock infantry wasn't effective enough in captain mode. It's been said so many times, but again, different modes have to be balanced differently.

Bit late to the party, but I think there is some misunderstanding there. Shock is the meta in Captain and certainly does not need a buff.

Competitive comps tend to be 5-6 shock.

We understand there is a Captain patch coming soon, so we are hoping it splits the modes.
 
Javelins is still really powerful, you just need to aim now. The problem with javelins is that every class gets throwing weapons. I feel like only one class per fac should get javs to make it an actual choice. I played some skirmish yesterday and the meta for infs is to run away from fights as long as possible to throw javs, because you can easily switch weapon without getting damaged because how slow inf is in melee
 
I'll reply to some of OP's points then add one of my own:

Kicks

Agreed they're a lot better, still quite abusable though due to how slow people are and the relative difficulty of punishing someone who misses a kick. The animation could be slowed a little bit more imo.

Throwables

Throwing weapons still seem incredibly strong, it's difficult to push them due to the slow movement speed and they're able to be thrown with good accuracy and damage.

Archery

This is mostly what I played and tbh archery feels completely fine, totally acceptable to have to wait a short time for some accuracy. The only drawback is that this makes xbows very strong since their reload is not that much slower but they have quicker accuracy. I would slowdown the reload of an xbow.

Movement speed and swing speed

Movement still definitely feels off, especially in skirmish where you have plenty of equipment. It feels sluggish and difficult to move towards opponents, which creates frustration when kiting is happening or cav are constantly pushing you around so you take hours to get anywhere. I wonder if a blanket movement speed of a small amount for every unit would be worth playing with, of course that makes the kiting archers/jav throwers quicker too, but it allows aggressive players to capitalise on mistakes quicker.

Regarding swing speed, I don't agree it overall feels slower, I think it's become one of those inconsistent areas now - quick attacks going from certain animations (blocking, feinting) are incredibly fast and clearly the best attack option, whilst other times it feels far too slow to do an attack (primarily from holding LMB). The ability to simply block and do a return right swing is stronger than any double hit/footwork right now in my opinion. I just don't see why there needs to be a quick attack and heavy attack differentiation; why not have every attack have X windup speed and Y release speed, and that's how it works, if you want to hold or not, up to you.

Block delay

It does feel better, but I'd still love to see RMB completely override LMB with a block instead of the slower block it creates. I raised this to the devs in testing but simply got a "???" feeling from them. I can go into this in more detail if people want.

2 handed weapons:

Completely agreed that they seem broken. The swing speed on some of them, like the big menavlion polearms the Empire get or others, is just insane, relative to what 1h and shield feels like.

Additional:

Cavalry

Heavy armoured horses still dominate the field and cav in general still has huge amounts of utility. The rear-up changes on collision and spear are great, but I don't think the collision change goes far enough - I was unpractised just riding around full speed and as long as I didn't hit the wall full on then I was fine. Collision should be a lot more punishing.

Similarly, I think cav are simply too fast, especially considering the slow movement speed on foot troops, which combined with their ability to double tap W and get close to top speed instantly makes the armoured horses in particular very survivable. It would be a shame to remove this ability, as I think the double tap thing is cool, but it's just very strong. I would consider slowing down their acceleration from double tapping, and perhaps removing it altogether from horses that have been reared up. Armoured horses need toned down massively.

In general, I'd love to see:

- Slight movement speed boost for all, see how it feels
- Xbow reload slightly increased (maybe get rid of the halfway spot)
- Quick attacks and heavy attacks removed and replaced with consistent attacks
- RMB fully overrides LMB for blocking
- Slight cav speed nerf
- Less armour on the field in general

Game definitely feels better on 1.5 imo but plenty of work to be done.
 
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