Can we talk about gold in TDM/Siege?

[AoC]

Right now, in TDM you start with 120 gold.

You get 10 gold for first melee/ranged kill and first 3 assists (dealing 40+ damage to an enemy someone else killed).

You get 2 gold for each kill, and 1 gold for each assist after first 3.

If you kill higher cost enemy, you earn half the cost difference bonus (so your first kill with 100 cost infantry against 150 cost troop is earning you 2+10+25=37 gold).

You get 20 gold for 5th, 10th and 15th kill.

Once you respawn, you get 100 gold (so you always have option to spawn). There is some gold cap, but i don't remember it outright.


What i suggest:

You start with 120 gold, this one is fine to not see only peasants at the start, but also some archers and storm infantry.

You get 8 gold for every odd kill except the first (you still get additional first melee and first ranged rewards that are worth 10 gold).

Assists have lower treshold (you only need to deal 34 damage), but they decrease in quality (10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 2, 2 and so on).

You get 2 gold for each kill, except you get 3 gold instead if enemy is 10 gold cheaper than you and 4 gold instead if enemy is on your level.

If you kill higher cost enemy, for each 5 cost difference you get 4 gold.


Those changes would smooth out curve, and make people target equal enemies instead of going peasant hunting.

 

[flashn00b]

Thinking on it, I DO agree that "equal cost" units should have a higher payout than units that cost less than what you spawned as.

With that said, I'm not too sure if peasant hunting is really all that much of an issue. With the game's current balancing, light inf seems to be strong enough that a late joiner can do enough damage to earn enough gold to respawn as stronger units. I can only think of very specific examples where peasant hunting would be egregious, though they mainly relate to Vlandia being the best at everything more than an issue that affects most faction matchups.

 

[MadHatter10_6]

I largely agree with your change suggestions. Biggest thing for me is having more options avail. at the start. I like the idea of having avail. those three options (peasant, 2H, and an archer) to start a round.

I do find once you get into heavy infantry you can often stay as heavy infantry...for a while. But then, because you're expensive, if you're not staying alive for 5th kills, it isn't sustainable the entire game which is frustrating. Definitely easier to keep up in a siege as well I find. TDMs are so chaotic. Sometimes it feels unfair, finally spawning as something good, only to be run over by a horse instantly.

Peasants should also just generally make more gold, whether they all have a looter option (like vlandia) or just increase gold for kills (like your suggestion above).

 

[flashn00b]

light inf seems to be strong enough that a late joiner can do enough damage to earn enough gold to respawn as stronger units.

I was wrong. Peasant hunting is still a valid tactic against Empire. That said, I still think gold rewards relative to unit costs is still a good way to tackle things, but the more productive way to deal with peasant hunting would be to ensure that there is a baseline that light infantry is balanced around, cuz they still need to be a strong enough pick that late joiners can do enough damage against units that actually have a gold cost assigned to them. If a light infantry unit were to underperform, players will still peasant hunt regardless of gold penalties since they'd still be a free kill barring a 5v1.

 

[Niklaus]

I was wrong. Peasant hunting is still a valid tactic against Empire. That said, I still think gold rewards relative to unit costs is still a good way to tackle things, but the more productive way to deal with peasant hunting would be to ensure that there is a baseline that light infantry is balanced around, cuz they still need to be a strong enough pick that late joiners can do enough damage against units that actually have a gold cost assigned to them. If a light infantry unit were to underperform, players will still peasant hunt regardless of gold penalties since they'd still be a free kill barring a 5v1.

I still don’t get how you come up with all the bs you post. The average player can get at least a kill and a assist or two so within 2-3 deaths you should be able to play whatever class you want.

 

[flashn00b]

I still don’t get how you come up with all the bs you post. The average player can get at least a kill and a assist or two so within 2-3 deaths you should be able to play whatever class you want.

Recruit is still the worst light infantry in the game, having a dull butter knife for a base weapon and 10 armor.

Your lack of survivability makes Rapid Throws and Shield Wall useless, and Mobility makes Shield Wall look useful in comparison, which makes the only real perk selections Spatha/Specialist or Spatha/Pila. Even then, the Spatha's comparable to the base weapons that other light infantry have when picking the Improved Armor perk. Basically, they're the absolute easiest unit to kill in the game and even if the way gold works in TDM gets changed, player behavior likely won't just cause recruit kills remain as easy as everyone insists that they should be.

 

[Niklaus]

Recruit is still the worst light infantry in the game, having a dull butter knife for a base weapon and 10 armor.

Your lack of survivability makes Rapid Throws and Shield Wall useless, and Mobility makes Shield Wall look useful in comparison, which makes the only real perk selections Spatha/Specialist or Spatha/Pila. Even then, the Spatha's comparable to the base weapons that other light infantry have when picking the Improved Armor perk. Basically, they're the absolute easiest unit to kill in the game and even if the way gold works in TDM gets changed, player behavior likely won't just cause recruit kills remain as easy as everyone insists that they should be.

When compared to other peasant units yes you are the weakest in melee… but your also the only one with throwing weapons except for the throwing stones of the mongols. Yeah sure if you take throwing weapons away from them give them looter, more armour and even a better sword idc. I think empire is the hardest faction to fight for that very reason every single pleb is a skirmisher

 

[not-tancfire]

Why not gaining gold when the players are taking/defending the flag for the siege mode ?
This should encourage them to play the goals.