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State of Shield Infantry in 1.5.5
- Thread starter TheBard
- Start date
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Aprikosenmann
Knight
Exactly! "bUt It wAs a vOtE" does not count on such an emotional topic.
We will stick with the class limit forever no matter how the balance looks...
I hope that new patches will be out shortly, so we won't play BEAST #4 in this state of game. I like m&b because of its excellent melee system and so I think melee and infantry should always be relevant in any set-up. Nobody wants to chase archers the whole round or defend from 6 cav. We could do it, but I don't wanna spend my time just testing something, it's simply not my work.
It's a cool idea to have different classes to mix up set-up, but currently, they won't work. Nobody's gonna take skirmishers when they see 3-3 cav archer set up. I don't really see much choice - you either take heavy inf or die too fast cus it's impossible to advance with tiny shields TW provided everybody else. I totally don't get the idea that every player must excel in every class lol. If the game forces me to play classes I don't want I will simply play some other game.
It's a cool idea to have different classes to mix up set-up, but currently, they won't work. Nobody's gonna take skirmishers when they see 3-3 cav archer set up. I don't really see much choice - you either take heavy inf or die too fast cus it's impossible to advance with tiny shields TW provided everybody else. I totally don't get the idea that every player must excel in every class lol. If the game forces me to play classes I don't want I will simply play some other game.
Host a tournament yourself, you cant be serious here, you want a few hundred people to play by rules only you like ?
Most archers dont one shot, except xbows which again are inarguably OP, but that doesnt make them any less frustrating because currently they can shoot around the shield or footshot easily, and run away, and people want to melee in a melee game. Its understandably annoying.
But that doesnt necessarily make it broken, and archers play a key role in suppressing other tactics such as 2handers, cav, and people doing eternal holds or similar inf styles.
Buff shields to be a better defense against ranged while nerfing xbows. I also think the lack of slowdown on flinch really helps kiting players, some archer classes can get hit but if they keep running they just escape melee range because the inf slowed down upon attacking lol.
I don't see a lot of people talking about this, but this affects everything in the game, from melee to ranged, and I think it's bad. It's especially egregious in duels or when chasing someone. There needs to be a slowdown on flinch, period.
It seems highly likely to me that the game will eventually produce tournaments of a different format, there will be a tendency towards class restrictions for some and no restrictions for others. Right now I personally don't feel matches without it are very appealing, because of how the balance looks and the outlook on mono or dual class meta gameplay is also not very enticing.
Which is not to say that there is no room for such tournaments, I did mention that there are such events already happening and/or coming very soon.
Which is not to say that there is no room for such tournaments, I did mention that there are such events already happening and/or coming very soon.
I wouldn't say Apri is entirely alone in that regard and it's entirely acceptable to voice your opinion, even if most people will disagree. Which you, myself and I dare say the majority do. In my opinion it'd be short-sighted to turn the most popular Bannerlord tournament into a testing ground rather than simply hosting and/or participating in a similar competition that does not feature a class restriction.
Agreed on that, though I was specifically mentioning the heavy archery classes and their potential impact, which would be amplified in a match without a limit on those classes. Something must be done about kiting that makes it less viable for archers to run away and go into a shooting stance from time to time. Other than that the high damage potential is acceptable, excluding obviously OP crossbows for now.
Mushbeast
Knight at Arms
These sound like they could be good ideas. I'd say make switching from and to a bow take considerably longer than all other weapons to prevent the archer kiting, then instantly switching to melee and spin attacking though that may make the kiting problem worse as they'll have no chance but to keep running.
+1
Many of us raised our eyebrows when we first read "A player should be ready to play any class if the situation requires for it "; I can't speak out as a competitive M&B player, but I have played football, court speedpaintball at a competitive level among other team sports and I believe that there should always be a trend towards specialization. That there can be all-terrain players who master all classes? Absolutely, however to generalise with that comment seems to me to be a rather unfortunate strategy.
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Could you guys explain exactly what you mean by "flinch", please?
Aprikosenmann
Knight
The moment the class limit is gone I will have to bench myself because I'm a bad archer and bad cav.
Honestly the main reason for the class limit was to prevent the games to be cancer. Last patch the class limit was unnecessary but everyone still voted yes.
This patch the class limit is also unnecessary because 2-2-2 is pure cancer anyways. Class limit must be 1 right now!
Mushbeast
Knight at Arms
I believe they mean when you land an attack, or say a javelin, and the enemy sort of flinches but doesn't really lose any speed. Meaning you could stab someone running away with a spear but they'll keep running and you'll probably lose ground because of the combat speed penalty.
Last patch was not balanced in the slightest. I'd personally say it's slightly better now, besides cav being brokenly OP, and in my opinion archers still being too powerful/easy.
that sounds reasonable.
@OurGloriousLeader
The dominance of cavalry against infantry atm amplifies archers strength to be fair. As cav you are more effective attacking infantry then archers, i find it very hard to kill an aware archer who knows his way around a cav. Infantry is a low risk high reward target.Nerfing Cav against Infantry should tilt the pressure towards archers a bit.
@IceNoVa
Up until BEAST#4 i was against any class limits, what tickles me the wrong way is the disregard for the vote. I mean the votes werent even close :
BEAST#1 16-8 , BEAST#2 15-5. Didnt find the vote on BEAST#3
@Aprikosenmann
Last patch 95% of people were crying about crushthrough, so it was obvious it will be gone soon ( soon took months, no real surprise here).
I just think the main tournament shouldnt be for testing purposes, rather for playing the game like most people enjoy, also the class limit is already
2-2-2 so its not like you cant play cancer atm. There can and will be smaller and shorter tournaments much more feasable for testing stuff, its just very naive to think most people will stay around not having fun beeing abused as labrats for 8 weeks straight.
The dominance of cavalry against infantry atm amplifies archers strength to be fair. As cav you are more effective attacking infantry then archers, i find it very hard to kill an aware archer who knows his way around a cav. Infantry is a low risk high reward target.Nerfing Cav against Infantry should tilt the pressure towards archers a bit.
@IceNoVa
Up until BEAST#4 i was against any class limits, what tickles me the wrong way is the disregard for the vote. I mean the votes werent even close :
BEAST#1 16-8 , BEAST#2 15-5. Didnt find the vote on BEAST#3
@Aprikosenmann
Last patch 95% of people were crying about crushthrough, so it was obvious it will be gone soon ( soon took months, no real surprise here).
I just think the main tournament shouldnt be for testing purposes, rather for playing the game like most people enjoy, also the class limit is already
2-2-2 so its not like you cant play cancer atm. There can and will be smaller and shorter tournaments much more feasable for testing stuff, its just very naive to think most people will stay around not having fun beeing abused as labrats for 8 weeks straight.
@AVRC In terms of balancing the impact that infantry had, are you considering to rework some of the ''medium'' infantries to a more playable state? I am referring to for example the Empire 2h class. Basically after spawning as legionary we are forced to go either peasant or 2h class with forced 2h weapon. In my opinion it would be great to rework so we can have a legionary but less tanky and a bit weaker. The problem is that being forced as 2h or peasant is not fun for many.
Aprikosenmann
Knight
Okay that makes sense. We let Beast be the place where we can have fun. But dont you agree that we need a harsher class limit right now?
Thanks! So as XDaron also says, it sounds pretty reasonable.In my opinion this along with a tension calibration of each bow/ballista ( time to arm/draw I mean) the way we talked about in this thread (the official changes reflected in 1.5.5 fell far short of what was discussed in that thread).
I believe there have been proposals of not restricting archers or cavalry, but instead introduce a minium of 3 infantry. If that is what you mean by harsher limits that is. Hopefully we'll see a patch to fix inf (and the cav glitch) soon™
Aprikosenmann
Knight
I think it has to be even more restricting. 2 cav alone have too much impact on this patch. 1 cav max is definetly needed to have fun again.
As OGL said, archers are only good right now because they can deal with cav better than inf.
It needs a special thread, but all the bows in game are so much different now, some bows are just twice as good as another. For example, battanian faster release bow not only fast af, but can also oneshot light infantry, for example aserai tribals, with no headshot. Meanwhile other bows, like Khan's guards recurve bows, can barely deal 25 dmg to the body and can't usually kill with 2 headshots. Thus, some bows, like battania faster release, or sturgia strong bow are really a little bit op compared to others, and some are just trash.
I'm not talking about longbows and shortbows being trash, like who ever will choose battanian long bow if you can choose faster release which shoots 2times faster and deals second high bow damage in game.
No, because teams have different players and different approaches. Generally the cohesion and teamwork between the classes is an integral part of the game, 2-2-2 at this point doesnt need that, you yourself said you dont need to give any commands as IGL, thats pure chaos only rewarding personal skill. Also there is different factions, which need different setups .
I would be loving to have a 6v6 infantry tournament, but thats not the main game mode.
