White Armour?

[Ming]

Right. This would be much easier to give context to.

A knightly order dedicated to protecting peasants (Let's say, the Knights Proletaria, or Defenders of the Weak.) against Bandits/Slavers would be much more believable and interesting than just being 'good'.

Unfortunately, such knights would be poor, and dirt poor at that. (There's no money in saving peasants, only in robbing them.) This is where they would need an altruistic patron to support them, or else they wouldn't be able to afford any of this white armor we're talking about, and I can't think of any rich man paying knights to protect the peasants he probably robbed or taxed to get rich in the first place. The types of Orders that would arise wouldn't be much different from the manhunters who are already in the game. (Poorer, actually, since they presumably aren't on someone's payroll.)

We'd really need to develop a religious or philosophical framework to justify any independent military orders. This is why dark knights bother me so.

 

[Lascivius Lam]

However, this game is fantasy. Realism is all well and good sometimes, but if the players choice of allies are bad guys, really bad guys, and absolutely amazingly bad guys, it just leaves the player feeling maybe a little cheated.

Absolute gritty, grimy realism isn't really what this game is about. At least, not in my mind. It's realistic enough to feel 'authentic', but it's still fantastic enough to let you feel like a hero in a medieval-themed world.

To take this whole idea one step further, what REALLY is Good or Evil anyway? I personally do not believe in true Good or true Evil. I agree that the "concept" exists, but I seriously do not believe that everything is cut and dry. I personally view Good and Evil as misguided opinions within the perception of the human mind. Constructs of the mind created to justify events and actions, with absolution and the least possible amount of personal accountability.

Here in this corrupt country that we call the "United" States of America... we have a bloody Holy Knight/Paladin/Crusader running the show who murders innocent and guilty parties alike (as one and the same) in the name of Christian idealism and this idealism of supposed "freedom"... He orders the destruction of an entire society never considering that it is possible that the very society that his is ordering the murder of may regard HIM as the Evil one.

Where does one draw the line in the sand on the idealism of Good and Evil? ... if you ask me, what the "Holy Knight of America" PERCEIVES as "Good" is about as close (IMO) as ANYONE ever comes to pure "Evil". However, I fully understand that many people would disagree with me on this issue... and I accept that... because nothing is cut and dry... it is all based on perspective and idealism.

So to summarize, go ahead and add the Paladins to Mount and Blade, it will give me another variant in the swath unit types that I love so much to mow down with glee. Nyuck nyuck nyuck. )

 

[GreenKnight]

Ugh...look, what about the suggestion that was made awhile ago, to just buy some enamelation kit? Buy black armor, and make it whatever color you want? If I have to hear one more diatribe about how religion is for idiots, or America is the instrument of evil, that whole fork in the eye's going to start sounding pretty good.

 

[Ming]

Ugh...look, what about the suggestion that was made awhile ago, to just buy some enamelation kit? Buy black armor, and make it whatever color you want? If I have to hear one more diatribe about how religion is for idiots, or America is the instrument of evil, that whole fork in the eye's going to start sounding pretty good.

In this, we definately agree. Odd how this thread became a stump for political/philosophical views.

As I posted in the Graphics suggestion, I'm 100% behind more options to customize the look of your character.

 

[Lascivius Lam]

Ugh...look, what about the suggestion that was made awhile ago, to just buy some enamelation kit? Buy black armor, and make it whatever color you want? If I have to hear one more diatribe about how religion is for idiots, or America is the instrument of evil, that whole fork in the eye's going to start sounding pretty good.

Yeah, sorry about that I lost track of what the focus of this thread was... I agree... customize your character a bit more sounds like a good thing to me as well. Political/philosophical rhetoric aside. ;o)

 

[Balor]

Well, about philosophical rhetoric:
Good is something done with intention to help.
Evil is something done with intention to harm.
Simple enough, heh? And works in simple cases, like altruist that helps everyone (good) and maniac that takes pleasure in torturing victims (Evil).
Hoever, if we take abovementioned "US vs Iraq" example, it gets messy. They (at least, so they said ) got in with an intention to help... but with completely Evil means - i.e. bomb them. "Liberated to smithereens!"
So, result should be judged. Sometimes, you DO have to do some evil for the greater good - like kill a maniac that will otherwise kill a lot of innocent people.
But when 'Greater Good' is some kind of vague religious thingy (like liberation of a holy land) and means of it are 'kill, burn, pillage'... it really begins to reek like blackest Evil.
Also, too much good is not too Good too.
There is a GREAT Soviet movie (if for teenagers... but even movies for teenagers made that time were much 'smarter' then current Hollywood blockbusters) that sounds like... Cannot really translate 'Otrok', so I guess it's like a 'Teenagers in universe'.
Well, a company of those land on a planet. It's completely desolate, if even show ambulant signs of civilized life... eventually, they discover that a rather advanced civilization began to make robots that become really self-sufficient and smart, and entrusted their (people's) well-being into those robot's hands. So, them got down to business - they decided that it would be much easier not to please every human (cause it's impossible), but to remove every desire that prevents them from being happy... including desire to create, to love, to hate... well, pretty much everything, except the desire to have fun.
That DID made people absolutely happy (seen people with Down's Sindrome?)... and they eventually died out, of course, except for the crew of an orbital station. Even means of making them happy were completely 'Good': robots created a 'Call' that made people to willingly walk right into their apparatus.
That's what you get when you have Ultimate Good. Is it better much better (long-term) then Ulitimate Evil? See no difference.

 

[Lascivius Lam]

I agree with a lot of what you have to say in regard to the situation with the US invasion of Iraq. However, I find it to be that there is simply no way to prove that Good is Good and Evil is Evil... there are far too many factors involved for it to be an absolute truth. Everyone likes what they like and are in effect what they put forth to be... but there are motivations that are based personal belief systems which makes the judgement of Good and Evil a moot point.

I suppose my ultimate point is that one thing that means something definite to one person means something completely different to someone else. It's all about perspective and perspective inherently is flawed by personal bias. Yes, the CONCEPT of Good and Evil certainly can be understood in terms of Black and White, but in terms of its realisation is the spectrum of world... that is another story...

 

[Manu]

Right. This would be much easier to give context to.

A knightly order dedicated to protecting peasants (Let's say, the Knights Proletaria, or Defenders of the Weak.) against Bandits/Slavers would be much more believable and interesting than just being 'good'.

Unfortunately, such knights would be poor, and dirt poor at that. (There's no money in saving peasants, only in robbing them.) This is where they would need an altruistic patron to support them, or else they wouldn't be able to afford any of this white armor we're talking about, and I can't think of any rich man paying knights to protect the peasants he probably robbed or taxed to get rich in the first place. .

Such an order could be paterned somewht on the historical Templars knights - they started as well-meaning knights vowing to protect the pilgrims but to get enough money for the task they turned into an efficient money machine.

In M&B's setting this would mean that beyond helping peasants, they'd also do things like escorting caravans and getting paid by the nobles to perform bandit-sweeps - without endangering the noble's own troops.

If they're linked to the main local religion, serving in the order can also become a fom a penance - serve for a certain time and the church will forgive that embarassing affair of harobring heretics.

Note : by curasader's standarts, the templars and hospitalers knights were leaning on the good guy side, as the poverty and chastity vow restrained the two most reasons for misbeahavior - greed and lust. The strong discipline hlped a lot too.

 

[Ming]

For the most part, I like.
I'm already thinking about what sort of mod I'd make for this game.


And please, Gentlemen. You mean well and are reasonably articulate, but let's stay on topic.

 

[Worm]

Hey guys. How about they add ABOSLUTELY NOTHING except for a storyline where you just annihilate the two oppossing factions when you join one. Then it just drops to windows when you win.