White Armour?
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DominicWhite
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Oooh.. Following on from that idea - there's an idea. A white knights faction on the map somewhere. Paladins of the highest order, riding around to right wrongs and the like - smashing bandits mostly. Of course, the black knights balance that out.
Even better - give the player the option to join those factions later on?
Even better - give the player the option to join those factions later on?
Vae Victus
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Sappo said:
not to mention that the color peals off and requires constant repainting.
Whitmire
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Umm, adding paladins would get us dangerously close to a fantasy plot of good vs evil. I think it's better now that you can't really decide who are the good guys and the bad guys. Well, apart from Dark Hunters, who kill anybody they come across, and Black Khergits, who seem to be only after you - but these guys should be shown the door when it comes to writing the main plot. IMO of course.
Skree
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Whitmire said:
There is a good way of implementing paladins. Implementing them to what they in truth were.
Killers, marauders, no less than regular bandits. In their "holy quest for the good" they are nothing more than fanatics with religious beliefs... that would kill an entire village if it, perhaps, woships the goddess of nature instead of wathever god those crap paladins believe in.
It would be nice to finally see the figure of a paladin portrayed in its entirety. Nothing more than a villain with a shroud of sanctity.
Lord Blade
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But Skree's right though.
A fine example of how Paladins truly acted can be found in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.
There's a faction called the Children of the Light. Though everyone calls them the Whitecloaks.
They try to persecute "darkfriends" who are supposed to be evil people following the Dark One. But the thing is, they really just lynch anyone who disagrees with their views.
You could be a good man, maybe a simple farmer. But if you disagree with what they do, they'd label you a darkfriend and have you executed.
Well, a lot of the time, they have their Inquisitors torture you into confessing your sins (just like in history) and most people would confess to sins they never committed simply to have the pain stop (just like in history).
Really, the Paladins and Crusaders are far more evil than the "heathens" which they persecute.
They simply use god as an excuse for their crimes against humanity.
A fine example of how Paladins truly acted can be found in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.
There's a faction called the Children of the Light. Though everyone calls them the Whitecloaks.
They try to persecute "darkfriends" who are supposed to be evil people following the Dark One. But the thing is, they really just lynch anyone who disagrees with their views.
You could be a good man, maybe a simple farmer. But if you disagree with what they do, they'd label you a darkfriend and have you executed.
Well, a lot of the time, they have their Inquisitors torture you into confessing your sins (just like in history) and most people would confess to sins they never committed simply to have the pain stop (just like in history).
Really, the Paladins and Crusaders are far more evil than the "heathens" which they persecute.
They simply use god as an excuse for their crimes against humanity.
DominicWhite
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However, this game is fantasy. Realism is all well and good sometimes, but if the players choice of allies are bad guys, really bad guys, and absolutely amazingly bad guys, it just leaves the player feeling maybe a little cheated.
Absolute gritty, grimy realism isn't really what this game is about. At least, not in my mind. It's realistic enough to feel 'authentic', but it's still fantastic enough to let you feel like a hero in a medieval-themed world.
Absolute gritty, grimy realism isn't really what this game is about. At least, not in my mind. It's realistic enough to feel 'authentic', but it's still fantastic enough to let you feel like a hero in a medieval-themed world.
BetterNights
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Now, that's just you putting a 'good' and 'bad' spin on things. Everybody has their own agenda--of course, people in opposition to said agenda are going to think it's bad.
Balor
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Well, I'm sure that some people (in history) were indeed worthy of a paladin title (as it's defined in fantasy).
However, I doubt that there were entire ORGANIZATIONS of such people... because those individual are very rare. I'd say even rarer then mages in low-magic settings. I guess that's because being a selfish bastard is a distinct survival trait. No wonder we have very few altruists - they all died out long ago .
And larger organizations would indeed eventually (and inevitably) degrade to Whitecloak-like ones.
I, myself, always thought that, while Believing in something is good (after all, sometimes its only thing we have), but as it becomes religion - divine becomes 'Human, too human'. Those more interested in profit and less - in morality will get to the top (cause they are more interested in this, and better in manipulation, naturally)... and voila, we have what we have.
And besides, a loose quote:
"Immoral and greedy bastard is much preferable to a fanatic, because while first is more interested in money and may even have occasional pangs of guilty conscience, fanatic will spill oceans of blood with no second thought".
Like, Hitler is a perfect example of a paladin. Just substitute ‘evil orcs’ for ‘Jews and Russians’, and ‘God’ for ‘Third Reich’.
However, I doubt that there were entire ORGANIZATIONS of such people... because those individual are very rare. I'd say even rarer then mages in low-magic settings
. I guess that's because being a selfish bastard is a distinct survival trait. No wonder we have very few altruists - they all died out long ago .And larger organizations would indeed eventually (and inevitably) degrade to Whitecloak-like ones.
I, myself, always thought that, while Believing in something is good (after all, sometimes its only thing we have), but as it becomes religion - divine becomes 'Human, too human'. Those more interested in profit and less - in morality will get to the top (cause they are more interested in this, and better in manipulation, naturally)... and voila, we have what we have.
And besides, a loose quote:
"Immoral and greedy bastard is much preferable to a fanatic, because while first is more interested in money and may even have occasional pangs of guilty conscience, fanatic will spill oceans of blood with no second thought".
Like, Hitler is a perfect example of a paladin. Just substitute ‘evil orcs’ for ‘Jews and Russians’, and ‘God’ for ‘Third Reich’.
Lord Blade
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Well, for the most part, the Swadians and Vaegir aren't "bad guys". They're just people at war. Which simply means their leaders are "bad guys" cause they're fighting for power at the expense of their people.
Bandits aren't really "evil" all the time. Historically, most bandits are simply peasants who have been taxed to the point where they're lost their homes and all possesions. And so they have to resort to theft and banditry to survive.
Bandits aren't really "evil" all the time. Historically, most bandits are simply peasants who have been taxed to the point where they're lost their homes and all possesions. And so they have to resort to theft and banditry to survive.
Lord Blade
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Balor said:And I hope everyone understands that crusaders are 'a bit' different from AD&D paladings?
LOL!!!
I've had arguments with friends about how if we want to play REAL Paladins in D&D, we should have to play Lawful Evil. :p
Ferox
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Yeah there is no good and evil in MB, thankfully. It is just medieval faction squabbles.
as for crusaders.... crusaders were responsible for killing thousands of jewish and muslim men women AND children for their religion. They are the "paladins"(hence where the word came from) of their religious faith and are religious zealot warriors(hence real life paladins).
I personally would love the introduction of the medieval church and all that into the game. Have inquisitors going about looking to see if your not a heretic and stuff like that. You could also work for the church and go kill the said "heretics" ahahha!.
as for crusaders.... crusaders were responsible for killing thousands of jewish and muslim men women AND children for their religion. They are the "paladins"(hence where the word came from) of their religious faith and are religious zealot warriors(hence real life paladins).
I personally would love the introduction of the medieval church and all that into the game. Have inquisitors going about looking to see if your not a heretic and stuff like that. You could also work for the church and go kill the said "heretics" ahahha!.
