Which leveling system do you prefer Warband or Bannerlord?

[Lamias]

That has nothing to do with balance. The simple truth is that there's no gameloop to master with smithing. Crafting the first blade is literally just like crafting the 10th. So what do you want to be rewarded for? There's no learning curve, no investment other than time - through repetition.

But the whole discussion is deviating from the skill system (with bad caps, overtly complex point systems and it's overal problems) towards smithing speficially. So let me just tell you, that yes, i expect to bypass that system. As it's not rewarding anything. And i only think it's resonable to be able to find and hire actual smiths to forge weapons regarding to the specifications of their liege/employer at some point in the game - even if it would costs thousands of denars.

I would like a learning curve as well. That's up for discussion and brainstorming.

But, by your logic, there isn't a learning curve in battles either!!

Fighting your first big battle is like fighting your 100th one. The skillset that you have to practice is exactly the same. Block attack run - block attack run.

Maybe you should bypass that system as well...

 

[EvZone]

Maybe also a chance for skill books to drop from bandit hideouts? Not sure on the authenticity of bandits keeping stolen books but might provide a slightly more organic way to speed up progression while discouraging the pure looter-farm approach. You could also have them drop later on from successful sieges or large armies so you could build a mini-stockpile for your heirs to further speed up the process next time around. Trainers dotted about the map also seems like a no-brainer.

Just little things to make the whole experience feel less draining than it does currently.

Yeah! Giving every encounter, especially the repetitive ones, a chance to give you something unexpected would make them more palpitating. Especially hideouts, I find them really dull to deal with, too much walking (and in a dark setting...). If there was a chance for a cool reward in the end (scrolls of roguery !), you'd at least go in thinking 'okay, I might get something nice'.

 

[Lamias]

I'd much rather be out fighting battles, to earn xp, to learn skills, that help me more effectively fight bigger battles, to earn xp, to learn skills, that help me more effecively...

You get the ideal? That's Warband in a nutshell.

Bannerlord in a nutshell? Buy stuff from merchants and click craft a few times, then wait while watching youtube, repeat for ten hours. Then ride in circles for a few hours while buying lots of food types.... then play a barter mini game for a few hours.... then play the trade mini game for a few hours...then play the auto resolve mini game for a few hours...

It's just ****ing boring man. It gets worse on replay as well.

That gameplay that you call boring, for some others might be awesome because they actually want to play a trader. Or a blacksmith. And that is what these professions do. Buy items - craft/sell - repeat. Not everyone plays the game like you.
I accept that it's boring for you, so maybe you should focus on fighting battles. No one is stopping you. And your battle skills will increase.

But Warband's system was unfair to people who liked to roleplay as traders and enterprise owners. Warband forced everyone to grab a sword and fight, because that was the only way to get XP. Now traders have an equal chance of gaining XP, and that for me is good for alternate playthroughs.

And please don't say that the game is called "Mount and Blade", you are meant to hack and slash etc...

1) It's a sandbox
2) The mechanics for alternate playthroughs exist (auto-resolve battles with troops only, making profit from trade, owning enterprises, crime and gangs etc). Evidently it can be more than hack and slash. The devs want it to or they wouldn't put these in.

The system should be rethought and rebalanced, but it's still a step forward as a philosophy. It makes you choose who you want to be. You can't be everything and be successfull. (Well you can, it just takes too much time)

 

[HalfTauter]

So I was thinking, what about a synthesis between Warband's and Bannerlord's skill systems?

For example, you unlock perks by using certain proficiencies, just like now, BUT you are not able to enable them yet. When you level up, you can spend a point in one of the attributes which give a small passive boost, for example vigor gives extra HP and endurance extra speed on both map and in combat, etc. Besides that, you get 1 point you can invest in one of the perks you unlocked. This would mean someone has to really think forward in what perks he or she wants to put the points into.

Maybe let this scale with the higher level you go, for example, every 5/10 levels, you get an extra point you can invest in perks with each level up.

This would be the best of both worlds I think. For example, you get better in something by actually using it, but just like Warband, you can also shape your character how you fit it.

 

[Silver Wolf]

I voted for Warband system, maybe because this TES-like system caught me by surprise.
But in general, it's not too bad. It just needs some adjustments.
To me it seems like some skills level up way too slowly now that everything's moving at a pace much faster than Warband's.

 

[Sithrain]

I would like my character to learn charm. The new system does not let me do so to any reasonable degree within a lifetime. I would like my character to learn medicine... same problem. Athletics? Super awkward and gamey again. I get that people don't want to fight battles as the only way to advance but even in the warband system (which I am in no way set on) that is perfectly possible as long as we still get xp for other activities. I don't get all the responses here saying "I know it's broken but when it's redesigned it will be better". If it takes a redesign to be better, it is not actually better. It is a stand in for the hope of a better system, and you are giving it a pass in the phase of development when it really needs to be nailed down.

 

[Zascha]

No

You are in the majority. 242 yes vs 195 now as of this date. Of course those not liking the new system will voice and shout louder than those who like it. But the numbers dont lie, a clear majority likes it (and i like it, despite all its flaws).

Well. The game has only been on EA for a few days. Once these people who say "Yes! I love it!" get around to making their second, third, fourth character, they'll change their tune real quick.

You guys don't see it yet. But you're going to get tired of grinding these levels out.

 

[Uruk34]

1) It's a sandbox

Just my opinion, but I think this is actually one of the key issues with implementing "pure" learn-by-doing into this style of game (as it stands currently). While something like the elder scrolls has a similar system, it's filled with interesting, linear, early story arcs that make collecting that 1000th piece of iron ore feel less like a chore and more organic. It also has a wide array of earlygame enemies, each with unique weaknesses, strengths, and movesets to keep you engaged as you grind out the levels.

In Bannerlord I feel like I've already done the majority of earlygame quest-types (I know more are incoming, but I'm talking as it is at present) and I'm not sure they even gave any experience? Also there are what, 10 variations (at most) of bandit that you'll continually be farming to level up? And these won't develop or change as you get later into the game, as they would in TES. Given that Bannerlord is an inherently very different game from TES that's pretty much expected, but it makes shoehorning in one aspect of TES that really relies on the rest of the game design pretty jarring to me.

So I was thinking, what about a synthesis between Warband's and Bannerlord's skill systems?

This is what I'm hoping for ultimately. Attributes would be more important early on to get to basic proficiency in speed, strength etc. while perks could remain more important/attainable as the game progresses. That way you're speccing into the overall skills you want early, but still have some freedom later in the game to choose where you focus.

 

[Ted Striker]

I was possibly a little overzealous in that post so I apologise if it came across badly. I do see the merit in the system. I just think the way it's been implemented is horrible as it stands. I think really the issue is more that the current system left me pretty demoralised and frustrated at the lack of progress, rather than it necessarily being inherently worse as a concept than Warband. I was also firmly in the camp of enjoying the sandboxy nature of Warband and I know that's not for everyone. In terms of agency, maybe if a lot of the skill-gain wasn't passive e.g. leadership- solve a dispute in your party or something?

The system is very barebones right now and totally unbalanced.

My biggest complaint about it, even beyond how slow it is to gain skills, is how unrewarding leveling is. You gain a focus point which doesn't immediately help you and occasionally a trait which also doesn't immediately help you.

Why even have levels anymore? Make it skill-based only.

 

[Gamersaufromage]

Well. The game has only been on EA for a few days. Once these people who say "Yes! I love it!" get around to making their second, third, fourth character, they'll change their tune real quick.

You guys don't see it yet. But you're going to get tired of grinding these levels out.

4th campaign and still love it, once you understand how to grind, it gets a lot easier. But as I stated before, there is some adjustments that needs to be done IMO :
- Extra point every 2 lvl or 2 points every 3 levels
- Scouting must be faster
- medecine should be faster and more impactfull on healing your troops

For the moment charm system is broken, so they need to really implement all the features that works around that so we can see if it "fast enough"
Also lot of perks need to be buff.

 

[Shrugging Khan]

Why even have levels anymore? Make it skill-based only.

Agreed. The levelling system doesn't fit (and neither do the perks, IMO). Feels like a gamey carrot to dangle in front of the player.

How about the following: No levels, no attributes, no focus points, no perks, and every skill has a chance to grow every time its used, as opposed to whenever very specific conditions are met?

 

[vahadar]

Well. The game has only been on EA for a few days. Once these people who say "Yes! I love it!" get around to making their second, third, fourth character, they'll change their tune real quick.

You guys don't see it yet. But you're going to get tired of grinding these levels out.

Well i'm playing M&B since 2006, so i made probably a thousand of characters and restarted a few thousand times... So well no Sir you are wrong And yes you are right, this is EA, the same as it was for Warband beta, this is the purpose of EA, expect bugs, expect restart, expect incompatible save (so far so good, it was a nightmare for Warband beta in comparison) and so on, and i dont complain, i'm not the only one as far as i can read here...

 

[Turnaround]

We've been submitting screenshots of our playtime and skill gain - they're tweaking it

 

[paladinx333]

once you understand how to grind, it gets a lot easier.

I don't want to feel like I am grinding anything. And yet I am grinding things. Except for charm. That is basically unobtainable.

 

[Maximum997]

Little offtop:

Hey guys, wich perks are really working? Becouse i have feeling that they all doesnt work

And btw you forgor another bad thing:

This system force you to grind useless skills like throwing just to lvl up your hero further.

 

[kuwhar]

Just came back through to read about the EA release.

Seeing this thread and learning about "perks"?

Yikes.

I loathe perk systems, really disappointed TW went that route.

 

[Uruk34]

Agreed. The levelling system doesn't fit (and neither do the perks, IMO). Feels like a gamey carrot to dangle in front of the player.

How about the following: No levels, no attributes, no focus points, no perks, and every skill has a chance to grow every time its used, as opposed to whenever very specific conditions are met?

If spending time training in practice yards could actually be used to improve combat stats then that might be the way to go. After all, if we're going for realism, the way people improved their ability to wield a greatsword wasn't by going out and repeatedly getting killed by petty criminals while occasionally swinging said sword...

I honestly think I'd find spending time actually training to gain combat skill, athletics etc. (i.e. with challenges and stuff) more rewarding than the current system- at least it would bring some agency back to choosing your combat style.

As well as being grindy, at the moment I feel like the system shoehorns you into a very specific playstyle at the early levels where you're probably on a horse because athletics is so difficult to gain and probably using a bow because it's the easiest weapon to be effective with at low proficiency.

 

[Lovec1990]

Personaly Warbands Leveling system was better, becouse it was easier too understand what are you getting, But Bannerlords its hit and miss while Leveling combat skills is good, but its non combat skills that are bad

 

[manonskis]

Because of the skill system, companions were much more useful and fun in warband. In Bannerlord, I feel like my companions are mainly just extra fighters (I know that more companions and types are coming, but still).

 

[mfuegemann]

For me there are two points. First the change in attribute contribution is disappointing without proper documentation (warband size affected by stewardship rather than leadership now).
The second is maybe a balancing thing. I want to develop smithing as a personal skill, but with the (hard to understand) stamina value, it is just a grinding opportunity - visting a town - check stamina, forge another pointless weapon, just to advance towards the next level.
The "Skyrim"-like feeling is there - and I dislike it so much!
The old system was not perfect at all, but it made sense with the game.