Which leveling system do you prefer Warband or Bannerlord?

Which has the better leveling system?

  • Warband

  • Bannerlord


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Just my opinion, but I think this is actually one of the key issues with implementing "pure" learn-by-doing into this style of game (as it stands currently). While something like the elder scrolls has a similar system, it's filled with interesting, linear, early story arcs that make collecting that 1000th piece of iron ore feel less like a chore and more organic. It also has a wide array of earlygame enemies, each with unique weaknesses, strengths, and movesets to keep you engaged as you grind out the levels.

In Bannerlord I feel like I've already done the majority of earlygame quest-types (I know more are incoming, but I'm talking as it is at present) and I'm not sure they even gave any experience? Also there are what, 10 variations (at most) of bandit that you'll continually be farming to level up? And these won't develop or change as you get later into the game, as they would in TES. Given that Bannerlord is an inherently very different game from TES that's pretty much expected, but it makes shoehorning in one aspect of TES that really relies on the rest of the game design pretty jarring to me.

It is a good idea to implement more mechanics to level up and stop the grinding (examples from WB mods: Working in villages, hunting, mining ore or chopping wood etc).

And of course I agree that quests should be more than the basic 10 that we are used to, and of course they should give XP. Also I am a fan of random events that make me choose and get rewards or get in trouble (like in Brytenwalda mod)

But these implementations don't mean that the leveling system must go to the old warband. Why shouldn't bannerlord include those "interesting, linear, early story arcs" like in Elder Scrolls games that you mentioned? Skyrim came out in 2011 I think. We are in 2020. It is possible.
 
Only skill i really miss from Warband is trainer Skill becouse sometimes you want too train your new recruits
 
There is only the first perk of the leaderskip skill (Combat Tips or Raise the Meek). but I too miss the old trainer skill.
 
I don't know where all the votes are coming from voting in favor of a literally busted system which even if it were working as intended, would encourage grinding instead of having fun.
 
It generally feels hard to actually get what you want, because it's spread all over the place with skills and perks. Warband was much more straightforward: Here's a skill with +x% effects per skill level. You want more of that effect? Get more of that skill. But in Bannerlord, much of that is coded into those damnable perks...I really can't stop hating them. If there were no perks, but twice as many skills which covered all types of effect, that'd be much better.
 
The new system is great... just need some adjustments, like reducing the grind, rearranging a few perks and probably removing the cap...but the foundation is there and it's definitely superior if you compare to the old system.
I think what most people won't understand is the game is not ready and this is not their priority right now...I expect them to take a look at the crashes and optimizations during the next weeks...only then this kind of issue will be looked into.

I agree- the current system with tweaks will be better than the old system if they make the perks much less central to the design (no reason to have such abrupt levelling like a standard RPG) but it definitely does not work in the current implementation. The main issue is the level caps and the way focus and levelling work or stop progress as well some of the skills impacts on combat feels... totally absent?

I remember having to work for quite a while at the start of M&B to level up horse archer and bow skills to be able to hit anything at more then point blank range while not moving from a horse. Lancing was way more effective in the start to level up riding then add horse archery once riding was high enough.The one thing that bothered me about Warband was that the skills were simply multipliers the entire length of the skill chain. It would be much better if the starting levels offered larger gains with diminishing returns as people progress they learn more in the beginning while mastery is more a matter of refinement and combining several skills into a synthesis that makes everything better. Atheletics + two handed + vigor + control + tactics + Roguery blend offering two swing combo with more or less chance for being blocked depending on the skill of the target.

Now I am able to get headshots from middle ranges from the very first battle. Also in the Arena battles it used to be if you got weapons you weren't skilled in you had to immediately get better weapons or you were toast. Now you can comfortably take your time unless you spawn in a bad spot because even if you have 0 skill with a bow you can still reliably get kills from halfway across the Arena.

Better tooltips will surely help as well a bit more opportunities to level some skills. The game has lots of potential and system sort of in place- just not working at the moment.
 
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Warband for now. There was a real difference between weapon skill of 50 and weapon skill of 300 in warband for example, like night and day. I feel like it is the gear that matters mostly in bannerlord and now that they even nerfed the armors...And i just don't like the focus point thingy at all. I'd also like to see bigger difference on how the ai soldiers fight depending on skill. Melees are over in like 10-20 seconds now usually, it's definitely too fast paced.
 
Warband for now. There was a real difference between weapon skill of 50 and weapon skill of 300 in warband for example, like night and day. I feel like it is the gear that matters mostly in bannerlord and now that they even nerfed the armors...And i just don't like the focus point thingy at all. I'd also like to see bigger difference on how the ai soldiers fight depending on skill. Melees are over in like 10-20 seconds now usually, it's definitely too fast paced.

I agree soldiers should have bigger diffrence depending on skills, but i disagree with second part i prefere Bannerlords faster paced and more brutal combat
 
It is a good idea to implement more mechanics to level up and stop the grinding (examples from WB mods: Working in villages, hunting, mining ore or chopping wood etc).

And of course I agree that quests should be more than the basic 10 that we are used to, and of course they should give XP. Also I am a fan of random events that make me choose and get rewards or get in trouble (like in Brytenwalda mod)

But these implementations don't mean that the leveling system must go to the old warband. Why shouldn't bannerlord include those "interesting, linear, early story arcs" like in Elder Scrolls games that you mentioned? Skyrim came out in 2011 I think. We are in 2020. It is possible.

I think those kinds of mechanics would be a big positive. I may also be wrong about weapon experience gains from the training field games currently not being in the game? They were certainly in Warband...

Again I don't disagree, it doesn't need to revert, just needs some major improvements. Spicing up the earlygame with some actually interesting quests would definitely be a method of reducing the grindiness.
 
We like it and we stand by it, you hate it so just refund the game again and save us all from hearing you whining every single day about something new. You dont see me crying rivers on the forums for things that will be fixed in the future -.-
These are the official forums, literally a place to discuss, voice your complaints and whine. Who are you to tell anyone to refund the game? If they wanted to do so, they would have done it already. If you dont cry rivers on the forums that's your problem.
 
These are the official forums, literally a place to discuss, voice your complaints and whine. Who are you to tell anyone to refund the game? If they wanted to do so, they would have done it already. If you dont cry rivers on the forums that's your problem.

You are new here so il fill you in:
The guy i talked to biugh the game, was playing for 2h and disliked it, wrote tons of posts complaining in the forum and said he refunded the game. About 2h later he was back saying he bought the game again and once again spammed the forum with complaints about the game and swarmed all threads that was posetive and swarmed them with more complaints.
 
You are new here so il fill you in:
The guy i talked to biugh the game, was playing for 2h and disliked it, wrote tons of posts complaining in the forum and said he refunded the game.

Some people just like complaining and will never be satisfied, gotta ignore people like that, if he doesn’t seem to like anything about the games mechanics or the direction they’re headed, that’s fine just refund it and go away lol. Almost every mechanic they’ve introduced I like the concept of and can see being amazing. The clan system, new kingdom policies/influence system, castle management, army creation, new progression system, campaign AI and siege/combat AI are all promising and welcomed changes. We can talk about where we want it to go but asking for it to all be scrapped is a joke, if you want warband with better graphics then go play warband with graphics mods!
 
Some people just like complaining and will never be satisfied, gotta ignore people like that, if he doesn’t seem to like anything about the games mechanics or the direction they’re headed, that’s fine just refund it and go away lol. Almost every mechanic they’ve introduced I like the concept of and can see being amazing. The clan system, new kingdom policies/influence system, castle management, army creation, new progression system, campaign AI and siege/combat AI are all promising and welcomed changes. We can talk about where we want it to go but asking for it to all be scrapped is a joke, if you want warband with better graphics then go play warband with graphics mods!

I agree, i like the game as well, the smithing system is just awsome, i can make whatever combination i want and have it suit my "cosmetic" taste as well. And the game still got waaaay more to come :smile: Looking forward to see if they add new campaigns depending on what nationality you pick. Was a bit sad to see the Vlandian story was the same as the Empire, expected the story to change depending on your nationality.

So me and a lot of others got tired of seing him in every single post spewing his complaints so we told him and he reported all of us :')
 
After playing more bannerlord i am starting to like the new system better. The leveling based on everything you do and not just killing high level enemies feel more realistic and dynamic.

I think with some changes the new system can end up amazing. (But a lot of the concepts should be scrapped and reworked if they don't want the only character build that is viable to be a jack of all trades)
 
IMO (like it matters lol) I like bannerlord leveling. And think with some tweaks it could be great. There are some common problems that I'm not going to mention again but a big plus for me is using the skill to level up. I like that I can add focus points to increase the speed of the skill increase. Also I really like more then anything that Taleworlds released this in early access so things like this can be addressed before the full release and people won't expect a full game but know it's not finished....wait, nvm.
 
I think with some changes the new system can end up amazing. (But a lot of the concepts should be scrapped and reworked if they don't want the only character build that is viable to be a jack of all trades)

What did you mean with the part ()?


IMO (like it matters lol) I like bannerlord leveling. And think with some tweaks it could be great. There are some common problems that I'm not going to mention again but a big plus for me is using the skill to level up. I like that I can add focus points to increase the speed of the skill increase. Also I really like more then anything that Taleworlds released this in early access so things like this can be addressed before the full release and people won't expect a full game but know it's not finished....wait, nvm.

Yea its fun to finaly be able to play it, i am concerned with the MP beta ppls who spam that "we reported this 9 months ago and still aint fixed" and the fact its been in deveopment for 7-10 years. But im hopefull :smile: feels they are working hard to fix bugs and some things ppl report and want to change!
 
What did you mean with the part ()?

The most important i mean is that right now you must have a skill point increase to get a level, and the only purpose of levels is to increase the maximum of skills. (150+attribute x 10) so to get high skill in for instance leadership i need to level up very high and put all my attributes in social. The most effective way to level up is to raise all your skills, since low level skills are easier to increase and are not blocked by caps. So a player will have to level all skills to their caps in order to increase the cap on the skills they want to max out.

Imo the quickest and easiest way to fix this is to move from skill points giving levels to exp giving levels. if they also remove the exp multipliers from focus and attributes but instead just have higher level of skills require more exp to gain, it will be possible to focus on a few skills that one increases a lot.
 
The most important i mean is that right now you must have a skill point increase to get a level, and the only purpose of levels is to increase the maximum of skills. (150+attribute x 10) so to get high skill in for instance leadership i need to level up very high and put all my attributes in social. The most effective way to level up is to raise all your skills, since low level skills are easier to increase and are not blocked by caps. So a player will have to level all skills to their caps in order to increase the cap on the skills they want to max out.

Imo the quickest and easiest way to fix this is to move from skill points giving levels to exp giving levels. if they also remove the exp multipliers from focus and attributes but instead just have higher level of skills require more exp to gain, it will be possible to focus on a few skills that one increases a lot.

Might be a good idea since leveling up from 100 is a slow process and you are most likely to finish the game/story way before you get to max. And if you die of old age well, say goodbye to like 100h of work per skill :')
 
I would like a learning curve as well. That's up for discussion and brainstorming.

But, by your logic, there isn't a learning curve in battles either!!

Fighting your first big battle is like fighting your 100th one. The skillset that you have to practice is exactly the same. Block attack run - block attack run.

Maybe you should bypass that system as well...

Okay to go into more details, as you seemingly can't follow logic here.

Smithing - exactly one player input (clicking one button); more or less no enviromental variables influencing it, no timing needed. Or if you want to count blade length and such as input - Something where the most likely outcome is already predicted for you.
So neither really a task of physical or mental skill.

Battles - multiple player inputs, hundreds of variables influencing outcomes, actual timing needed. There's no prediction within battles coming from the game itself showing you the potential outcome of your attacks, so you've to rely on your own judgment on game mechanics. Which means you have to learn said mechanics. As you've got a wider variety of inputs you can actually change outcomes within a given enviromental situation.
So in that sense it required both more physical but also mental skills than smithing.

And you know the problem is, i've got nothing against trading or smithing in itself. I really like the X series.
It lies within the overal mixture.
- Sandbox games > great fun if there's enough to do in the sandbox and the sandbox is reposnive enough.
- leveling through action alone > great if the actions are fun all the way through.
- levels themselves > great fun
- Character specialization > great fun if you actually have enough gameplay loops to have characters become different.
- Skill perks > yeah can be fun; though i'm not sure it fits the 'realistic' approach WB had. But at least its existence will be a great boon to modders

But in Bannerlord we've got.
Levelling through actions, but currently very slow and a lot of quite monotonous actions (passive levelling skills are most idiotic imo), mixed with a levelling system that is based upon ALL SKILLS GAINED therefore directly as the supposed 3 point of character focus points and specialization and all that leading to perk points that really disallow a lot of actions (gain 225 point to be able to 'buy' fiefdoms in barters ?; become master in the passive low usage roguery perk to level bandits?).
And all that in a sandbox system whereas players should be able to explore systems.

So it's overall a really strange mixture. A mixture which mix of Attribute levels + focus points + skillgain rate which imo is also unnecessarily complex.

That's not speaking a strange age and death system (seemingly tripple digits of playtime before death), which sometimes the same people defend with the suggestion of kids should inherit skills/perks (in their dna or something), who claim this new XP gain system is so natural (as if an apprentice learns actual skill by repeatedly crafting the same item; which smithing so far seemingly does).

But that's all my oppinion, be all free to have your oppinion and fun with the new system. I don't blame anyone with having fun with any game (well maybe with clicker games) and i certainly don't want anyone to loose his fun with the game and the system. And don't even nessecarily would want the devs to change a thing now (as seemingly a majority dislikes it now but think it will end up great, which i don't).
 
Fully agree with this, the game at the moment is very grindy and the tutorial on how the skill and level system works is non-existent, I really had no idea how it all worked so I was grinding ULTRA hard without using my focus points so as you can imagine it took wayyy longer for me to level up.

I'm kinda bummed that most of the perks don't work yet, really makes it all seem pointless at the moment. And snowballing is still a massive issue.
 
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