[WBL] MOSS Anti-cheat

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Blivandefar

Grandmaster Knight
WB
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just having select few suspicious people use moss does not prevent other people from cheating. i think the point with anti cheat is for fair competetive warband games, just forcing it on couple people is hardly fair.
 

PepperKP

Baron
M&BWF&SWBNWVC
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Sup fam

No idea if these suggestions have been said already and maybe they're :poop:, but if MOSS would be implemented I'd suggest the following:

1. Don't have 3/4 of the people reviewing the info in the same team/clan/friendship group. I've obviously nothing against AE and they step up a lot for tournaments etc, but I don't think when handling stuff like this you should have all of them being good friends. I'm sure they wouldn't share personal info etc but the possibility is there when they're such a tight nit group. Of course this goes for anyone in a similar position.

2. The people reviewing it don't have the be the guys who always host tournaments. I understand these are the people who are usually those who step up and know a lot about warband, but for instance while I love OGL I don't think he's a good choice when half the community don't like him much (lmao) as regardless of his asset it doesn't inspire trust. I think you'll need a selection of people from around the community who are trusted not to gossip, well-liked and from seperate areas. I don't really know how you'd go about this, but people such as Rome, ChatNoir, Volcom, Oliveran or Erminas would be -my- picks, people who have done things in the community but are also not in the same friendship circle as well as being trusted enough. Of course, those would be my options but it's likely different for others, so I don't know how you'd go about it and I've no idea who's even interested in doing it including the people I mentioned.

3. Anyway, to me, this is my most important suggestion
To protect information I'd suggest assigning teams to the individuals reviewing the screenshots. So if you have 4 reviewers in a tournament of 16 they take 4 teams each, so if a screenshot was leaked we'd know who it was.
To protect against bias I think maybe having someone at the top of the reviewers, such as Aeronwen, to look through all of them and/or not releasing the information on who is assigned to what teams (with the possibility of them switching every so often).

I get that some of this seems a bit 'over the top' for a small community, but when dealing with personal information it's probably best to make it as secure as possible, regardless of how sensitive it is. I think having more of stuff like this in place would inspire more confidence in MOSS for those who are doubtful.

anyway I don't pretend to have answers and it might be **** but there's my input, sry for bad english I know im from england but yeah
 

Fietta

buıʇʇǝs uoıʇɔǝɹıp ʞɔɐʇʇɐ
Subforum Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Everything you said was fantastic, however, this doesn't protect information, this just turns it into a blame game. I really like your picks for reviewers though, I agree completely.
 

Kiano

Baron
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It does provide a better degree of accountability though, whether people want that responsibility or not is another thing though. Really like your suggestions though, pepper!
 

PepperKP

Baron
M&BWF&SWBNWVC
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Fietta said:
Everything you said was fantastic, however, this doesn't protect information, this just turns it into a blame game. I really like your picks for reviewers though, I agree completely.
It's protection in the sense of 'it's less likely the person would share it', rather then protection itself. It won't be a blame game if only 1 or 2 people have access to the screenshot, although I guess there's always the possibility of someone sharing their own screenshot.

 

_Osiris_

Baron
WBNWWF&SVC
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My new company "Equifaxsiris Data Limited" will be happy to securely store all relevant data for a small fee  :fruity:
 

Shemaforash

Marquis
WB
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Pepper said:
1. Don't have 3/4 of the people reviewing the info in the same team/clan/friendship group. I've obviously nothing against AE and they step up a lot for tournaments etc, but I don't think when handling stuff like this you should have all of them being good friends. I'm sure they wouldn't share personal info etc but the possibility is there when they're such a tight nit group. Of course this goes for anyone in a similar position.
Agree.

Pepper said:
2. The people reviewing it don't have the be the guys who always host tournaments. I understand these are the people who are usually those who step up and know a lot about warband, but for instance while I love OGL I don't think he's a good choice when half the community don't like him much (lmao) as regardless of his asset it doesn't inspire trust. I think you'll need a selection of people from around the community who are trusted not to gossip, well-liked and from seperate areas. I don't really know how you'd go about this, but people such as Rome, ChatNoir, Volcom, Oliveran or Erminas would be -my- picks, people who have done things in the community but are also not in the same friendship circle as well as being trusted enough. Of course, those would be my options but it's likely different for others, so I don't know how you'd go about it and I've no idea who's even interested in doing it including the people I mentioned.
Agree, but thought I'd point out Oliveran said he doesn't want to use MOSS for some reason.
Also people need to step up if they want to offer taking care of reviewing as so far AE players have proposed the initial idea and were willing to go through with it. Nobody else has stepped up yet.
These players weren't planning on participating in the tournament either but simply wanted to be a separate team to review and catch cheaters.
 

MaHuD

Section Moderator
WBM&BNWWF&SVC
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Shemaforash said:
Also people need to step up if they want to offer taking care of reviewing as so far AE players have proposed the initial idea and were willing to go through with it. Nobody else has stepped up yet.
These players weren't planning on participating in the tournament either but simply wanted to be a separate team to review and catch cheaters.
I could help out.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
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Shemaforash said:
Agree, but thought I'd point out Oliveran said he doesn't want to use MOSS for some reason.
Also people need to step up if they want to offer taking care of reviewing as so far AE players have proposed the initial idea and were willing to go through with it. Nobody else has stepped up yet.
These players weren't planning on participating in the tournament either but simply wanted to be a separate team to review and catch cheaters.
Exactly. I've already said I'm happy to not be involved if certain salty persons aren't comfortable having me review their logs but people seem happier presenting ideas without solutions than actually doing the work.

Generally good ideas from pepper tho
 

OliESC

Master Knight
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Peppers choice of reviewers is pretty perfect and his suggestions surely would improve a few aspects. But the problem I have with the whole thing is not even that I don't trust the people. I definitely trust Aeronwen, I'm pretty sure Deacon doesn't plan to sell the data and yes, I even trust OGL.
But when I look at the ESL site I notice a higher level of professionality. When you check their site and click on 'privacy policy' you get a very looong text (sadly, it's only in German) with lots of information about what's getting done with the data. There's a contact, real persons, they're even registered at some official register court and customers (players) can check if the company and those persons really exist. Actually it's not much different on TW forum. When you register a new account you get the info that your IP address is getting recorded etc. And somewhere you have to click on 'I accept the terms of the agreement'. And atm the situation here in Warband tournaments is a totally different one. I'm not even sure if the way it's planned to get done is actually legal. There are laws about data protection which are very strict (but I really don't know in which way it applies in this case, I'm not lawyer). Just as example in the ESL privacy policy people also get informed that those who are below 18 have to get the permission of their parents. And now in this tournament it gets demanded that all players have to send their private data to one they only know from a forum or only know from steam or some Warband server, without any additional information, without any guarantee of protection, and without any personal agreement. You can ask anywhere, ask a lawyer, ask some data expert, ask the police if you like.. they all will say "Are you crazy? Never! Do not send your private data to people in the internet you don't know!". And meanwhile it already happens that people who refuse to do what would be crazy to do are getting called cheater. And whoever will review this data, if I know and trust the people or not doesn't even make a difference. As long the organisation of Warband tournaments isn't on a professional level comparable to ESL there's no way I'd ever send my data to anyone. It's a basic principle.
 

Guaccmoleboy

On probation
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just tell the community which admin will be reviewing which .zip file if ure concerned about accountability

Shemaforash said:
Nobody else has stepped up yet.
i volunteered to help but i doubt many ppl want me to look at their files lol
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
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OliESC said:
But when I look at the ESL site I notice a higher level of professionality. When you check their site and click on 'privacy policy' you get a very looong text (sadly, it's only in German) with lots of information about what's getting done with the data.
As I've already pointed out the ESL data we're asking for his literally posted publicly, unedited and unaudited, for anyone to see. Most of their privacy policy refers to other personal data collected such as username, emails, and passwords etc, or their separate ESL anti-cheat.

Nothing indicates what we're asking for is illegal. As I said previously, if you really want my name and address put to it, that is fine.
 

V1ncent

Knight at Arms
WBNW
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OurGloriousLeader said:
Exactly. I've already said I'm happy to not be involved if certain salty persons aren't comfortable having me review their logs but people seem happier presenting ideas without solutions than actually doing the work.

Generally good ideas from pepper tho
No work needs to be done, I think none of this is actually necessary and it's just an inconvenience. However, if MOSS is actually going to be used in this tournament I don't want known trolls reviewing my data.
 

๖Kern

Grandmaster Knight
WBNW
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OliESC said:
You are not asked to give us personal information about you, there's a chance of an unlucky screenshot of your facebook/something else happening, that's all.
 

OliESC

Master Knight
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๖Kern said:
You are not asked to give us personal information about you, there's a chance of an unlucky screenshot of your facebook/something else happening, that's all.
The info on the MOSS website tells me pretty much the opposite. I'm not worried about screenshots at all, and you can get as many desktop screenshots from me as you like.  Atm people demand things they don't really understand themselves. We all are no experts and such comments just show the problem.
 

_Osiris_

Baron
WBNWWF&SVC
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V1ncent said:
OurGloriousLeader said:
Exactly. I've already said I'm happy to not be involved if certain salty persons aren't comfortable having me review their logs but people seem happier presenting ideas without solutions than actually doing the work.

Generally good ideas from pepper tho
No work needs to be done, I think none of this is actually necessary and it's just an inconvenience. However, if MOSS is actually going to be used in this tournament I don't want known trolls reviewing my data.

 

Varadin

Spring chicken
Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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I support any and every way of catching cheaters of any kind as i personally hate cheating.

If i understod correctly how MOSS works is basically gathering video/picture data from your monitor/desktop.

Now let me tell you something, there are many ways cheaters can still cheat and they wont be caught by this as there are multi ways of hiding background processes and programs which are running at that very moment.

Correct me if im mistaken but still good luck with this.
 

Varadin

Spring chicken
Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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They are easily modifed and renamed by cheaters and by those who craft them in first place but still i hope it will flush out atleast most of the cheaters from scene.