Merlkir said:
SMST said:
Sahran said:
Track down Iyiort's Asian faces if you need them too. Course we don't for TPW.
I already have. They'll be great for the Khergits.
And that Gallic Warrior is great, though there is a touch of fantasy about him.
ehm, quite a heavy touch I'd say. I'm not sure what I expected though.
Part of the 'problem' with the Celts is the almost exclusive depicting of them from the mid to late La Tene period (4th century to 1st). We associate mail armor and montefortino helmets with them, which can make their absence look odd. For comparison even though I know Hegemony is super accurate, I had to do a double take when I checked out their roman Triarii for how "Hellenistic" they looked.
To understand what went behind the concept for this celtic unit:
1) Torcs - self explanatory. Found amongst all range of European peoples from the Hallstatt Period (8th century BCE) at the earliest. Often remarked of being attributed to Celtic warriors
2) Arm rings - again. Common amongst 'barbarous peoples' and especially the Celts. There is a direct reference to them in a duel between Titus Manlius Torquatus and a celt in the mid 4th century. No reason to conclude they were a new found occurrence in the 4th century: http://books.google.com/books?id=YR684C0ryU8C&pg=PA174&lpg=PA174&dq=Naked,+except+for+his+shield,+two+swords,+his+torque,+and+arm+rings&source=bl&ots=RcxU-mjv-V&sig=hGQha_ebuNALPFkxIREhWrV6taI&hl=en&ei=HpsjTfScG8KB8ga7hqzgDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Naked%2C%20except%20for%20his%20shield%2C%20two%20swords%2C%20his%20torque%2C%20and%20arm%20rings&f=false
3) Braided hair - I didn't have any primary resource textual accounts, but like tenerife_boy & Lynores brought up with concept art, it's a frequent depiction. It's commented that (Celt?)Iberian warriors would often tie their hair up into braids, 'caps', or behind their head. It's not an unreasonable assumption that a long haired Celt could braid his hair.
4) Fighting half naked - well testified to the Celts. In fact, so is fighting fully naked. Commentary seems to suggest that it was a declining tradition as the 4th and 3rd century wore on, implying then that it was a stronger tradition in the early 4th and 5th and 6th centuries. There's again the comment of Titus Manlius Torquatus fighting an entirely naked Celt.
Body paint is the only risky feature, a fact usually attributed directly to the Briton Celts but which it sounds like had once been a tradition in earlier "Celtic" Europe. It's certainly clear that other European "Barbarians" used body paint.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Z814AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA8&dq=Gaul+tattoo&hl=en&ei=8J0jTe_SCcP98AazteiXDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Gaul%20tattoo&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=hdMRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA63&dq=Gaul+tattoo&hl=en&ei=8J0jTe_SCcP98AazteiXDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFYQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Gaul%20tattoo&f=false (top paragraph on the right)
I realize that's not as authentic as a primary resource attribute, but I couldn't find the references people make to stone relics from Continental Celts showing leader implied to be tattooed.
When it comes to the armored Celts if we do depict them, the instinctive response may again be of fantasy. Since this period lacks the ubiquitous mail, the armor a noble celt would wear could range from:
A) Bronze Cuirass - a frequent depiction by secondary authors, based off the "Grenoble Cuirass" from France dated to the 6th-7th century BCE: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Bronze_cuirass_2900g_Grenoble_end_of_7th_early_6th_century_BCE.jpg Is it accurate to have an armor 100-200 years old used? Debatable. However, our Thracians still use the Bell Cuirass which as I understand it is practically contemporary to the Grenoble Cuirass. Furthermore, it's more of an 'assocation than emulation' quality - without the invention of mail, with the use of a bronze cuirass a century prior, it's reasonable to conclude a Celtic noble might wear such an armor.
B) Disc Armor - I've seen it depicted by a secondary author once, never attributed to the Celts directly, but Iberians, Mediterraneans, Italics all used it.
C) "Soft Armor" - I've seen P-Italica depict a Gallic Mercenary of the mid 4th century in a linothorax, and Angus McBride in a "Late Halstatt/Early La Tene" series of Celts depicts what at first glance I seriously doubted. That is until I realized he was more than likely interpriting the Hallstatt Scabbard's depictions of armored riders: http://www.laits.utexas.edu/ironagecelts/hallstattsword.php
I believe it's a 5th century depiction (This site attributes the scene of the 3 infantrymen from it to the 5th century: http://www.universalartimages.com/images/427
. What you see with the 4 riders are 4 different types of armor:
1) The first three seem to wear quilted armor, with A/C having box quilts with studded armor? And C wearing striped quilts. The last seems to wear alternating strips of soft armor and metal armor
2) The pteurge-looking features at the skirt area could support being a Linothorax, as could the sleeveless features.
So when you see depictions like these: http://j.imagehost.org/0528/GAULS_Soft_armor.jpg
Your response is going to be like mine was "What the hell is this?" However, compare
some of them (The studded armor, not so much the broad battle belts) to the Hallstatt riders and you can realize where Angus Mcbride was coming from in his depictions. Are they accurate? Debatable. Are they
authentic? -Yes-.
So bear this in mind when you see the Celts. I am personally inclined towards the bronze cuirass and/or a celtic "Soft armor" which might look a little like a linothroax but wouldn't be explicitly an linothorax, since I suppose I just doubt the Celts at this point would be wearing them wholesale like you see Persians of this period doing - they just haven't had the time to really interact and co-exist with the Greeks (Outside of the Po Valley next to the Etruscans) to adopt it.
