TPW - Faction Preview: Samnite Federation

Lynores

Baron
M&BWBNW
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Researcher: Sahran

Oscan Youth


Oscan Tribesman


Oscan Warrior


Oscan Senior Warrior




Oscan Horseman


Oscan Noble


Campani Hoplite


Sacred Band


 

Sahran

Grandmaster Knight
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1) Before people jump in and ask questions about a "Sacred Band", the term is an appropriation to describe an apparently common practice amongst the Italics, with specific references to the Samnites (And a fleeting one to the Etruscans so far). The common thread is men who participate in some sort of religious ritual that swears them to fight to the death, and hence, be a "Sacred band".

For the Samnites, the direct reference is to the "Linen Legion" or "Legio Linteata" (Linen Legion) attributed by Livy, whose name seems to either come from the place they gave their oath at (Linen roof), or from the nature of their dress, which is attributed to be bleached linen or wool and silver/tin plated bronze (as a pectoral of the goddess bust found in North Africa supports, with apparently residue of white metal plating found on it). While this Sacred band as a Linen Legion existed specifically in references of 310 and 293 by Livy, the authors Nick Sekunda & Simon Northwood argue that "the legio linteata was not a creation made just for the campaign of 293 but rather a longstanding Samnite military institution".

We see "Sacred Bands" attributed across cultures and the term seeming to be appropriated by Greek Authors as a general term for some sort of religious/holy corps of soldiers. I know you had them in Thebes, in Carthage, in Samnium, probably amongst the Etruscans and it sounds like the Gaesatae had their own religious associations. So it's not an unreasonable term.  :smile: Likewise, keeping the later attested to practice of bleached tunics and 'white metal' plated bronze is apparently due to the Samnites associating white with purity and holiness. It's doubtful that was a cultural phenomenon that manifest exclusively in the later half of the 4th century.

2) While the troops are called Oscans, which is the best available term to refer to all the South Italics be they Samnites, Lucani, Bruttii, Iapyges or whatever, they are principally meant to be Samnites ingame. The Lucani/Bruttii and Iapyges are going to be bandits that'll harass Samnite and Magna Graecia alike.

3) Hopefully it need not be addressed that the Swastika seen here is based off historical evidence, and that it was a symbol of peace or good luck in antiquity. 

Stuff looks fantastic, Lynores!
 

tenerife_boy

Knight
WBNW
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First of all I want to congratulate Lynores for this awsome preview about samnites, itwill be an interesting faction for sure.
Secondly I want to ask you Lynores, if you have included 2 types of hoplons designs for the Lucanian hoplites, one is the shield I see in this preview and the other I´m talking about is this.
White shield with red star. is the most common that I´ve see.

Then, I want to give thanks to Sahran for this amount of info and want to ask a question:
How it´s possible that the Swastika appeared in this folks from south italy if it was from India? this is a holy question that always want to resolve but nobody seemed to got the answer. please pm me if you got it :wink:

Again, Thanks to both!!!!!!!
 

Merlkir

I think the swastika is not exclusive to India - the oldest ones are neolithic and from Europe.
 

JankoMega

Grandmaster Knight
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Read all about the earliest evidence of swastika there.
It says that it was first found in India in some religions like:Hinduism,Buddhism and Jainism.Later it was found in time of Etruscians,Samnites,early Romans and early Macedonians.So these pictures are HISTORICALLY-ACCURATE and can't wait to see them live from this mod on my PC. :grin:
 

tFighterPilot

Sergeant at Arms
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I feel like they're all a bit too colorful. I doubt dye was used that extensively during that period.

About the Swastika, there's even an ancient Synagogue in Israel that has this symbol. It was used all over the world.
 

Sahran

Grandmaster Knight
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tFighterPilot said:
I feel like they're all a bit too colorful. I doubt dye was used that extensively during that period.

   
According to Ian Heath: "Tunics are brightly decorated, on a base color which is most often red or white but could be crimson, red brown, ochre, light grey, or blue grey. All these colors plus blackk, yellow, and blue were used in decoration."

Livy's description of a late 4th century battle has the Samnite army divided into the Right Wing (Linen Legion) and Left wing (men in multi-colored tunics). While some today seem to cast doubts on the linen legion or if they wore silvered bronze (I'd believe in tin plating for bronze, or perhaps metal paint or some sort of mix that makes the bronze silvery/white), I doubt Livy was acting from complete fabriciation and hence multi colored tunics can be taken as legitimate.

I seem to parrot this line a lot, but I think thanks to the ravages of time removing dyes that were used, we seem to always abide by an impression of austerity and plainness in antiquity. Considering how garish Ancient Greek monuments and buildings were: http://io9.com/5616498/ultraviolet-light-reveals-how-ancient-greek-statues-really-looked

But since those colors didn't survive to the naked eye, we're left with a streamlined, 'clean' white or grey plaster/stone finish which lets us apply our modern sensibilities in colors and dress.
 

tenerife_boy

Knight
WBNW
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Secondly I want to ask you Lynores, if you have included 2 types of hoplons designs for the Lucanian hoplites, one is the shield I see in this preview and the other I´m talking about is this.
(click to show/hide)
White shield with red star. is the most common that I´ve seen.
What about this?
 

Slate024

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&S
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tFighterPilot said:
I feel like they're all a bit too colorful. I doubt dye was used that extensively during that period.
I don't doubt they used die that extensively, but maybe make them look a bit weathered so they don't knock your eyes out.
 

Sahran

Grandmaster Knight
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If a unit doesn't show up in a preview it's because they haven't been properly equipped or had their item created yet.
 

tenerife_boy

Knight
WBNW
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That´s ilogical, tought cause if you don´t have a unit ready to show you just don´t show it. Lynores has been editing the preview post doing what I´m talking about. and I see that the best way to go. :neutral:
 

Sahran

Grandmaster Knight
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Not necessarily. It would be 'bad' to delay an entire preview because of a single unit, and it would cause confusion if you had a unit randomly missing from the roster because the preview image of it isn't done yet. For example the Liby-Poeni Horsemen and Poeni Horsemen didn't/don't have images (the Poeni got his added recently). If you just removed those units from the list, it'd give a false impression.

But I'm confused since I figured I was describing what Lynores was doing, that you say is the best way to go. Editing the preview post to update it accordingly.
 

tenerife_boy

Knight
WBNW
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That´s what I said, better to update the post with a new "unit added" instead of put "oscan hoplite" and open the spoiler and see anything(Epic Fail) :grin::grin:
Just kidding man, but hope you understand what I mean. :wink:
Lynores has been updating post always so that´s why I dunno understand the "missed units".
 

Phaiak

Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
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Dawg of War said:
tFighterPilot said:
I feel like they're all a bit too colorful. I doubt dye was used that extensively during that period.
I don't doubt they used die that extensively, but maybe make them look a bit weathered so they don't knock your eyes out.
This wikipedia article would maybe help, but there is no english version of it.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antike_Polychromie
only because of the pictures:
http://erhard-metz.de/2008/10/09/die-goetter-trugen-missoni/
http://www.museum-kassel.de/index_navi.php?parent=2262
 

nomad93

Sergeant
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Oscans?Woah,they're my ancestors(with the Italiote Greeks).I can only be happy to play as one of my ancestors and,eventually,to create an Osco-Italiote faction.