TPW - Faction Preview: Carthage

[tenerife_boy]

If you ask me the way to do it is a proper Gallic Warband charge. 

NO YOU ARE BAD!!!   

A proper Macedonian heavy cavalry charge while giving a support for their phalanx...When Hegemony gets out,first thing i am going to do is scream very,very hard and then (when downloaded the mod) Start a New Game and choose a faction Macedon...after that recruit some phalangites (maybe mixed Macedonian and Ptolemaic),buy Macedonian phalangite armor,4m Sarrisa and KILL all your Gallic people and warriors just with my phalanx.

  What a nice plan for "prerelease" lol,i can tell you that i've been planning for that very long time.Like which faction i will choose when gets released and i chose Macedon of course.  BEST FACTION THERE IS!!!

Ahhh when i start talking about this i wanna kill myself because of my eagerness!

Kill the offtopic please. I checked the post thinking in new about Carthagian faction no in offtopic ( I admit it´s fun to read this but if you want to talk about military tactics please create a post here and we will share our ones.
Of course, around the pelop. mod not hegemony

 

[JankoMega]

If you ask me the way to do it is a proper Gallic Warband charge. 

NO YOU ARE BAD!!!   

A proper Macedonian heavy cavalry charge while giving a support for their phalanx...When Hegemony gets out,first thing i am going to do is scream very,very hard and then (when downloaded the mod) Start a New Game and choose a faction Macedon...after that recruit some phalangites (maybe mixed Macedonian and Ptolemaic),buy Macedonian phalangite armor,4m Sarrisa and KILL all your Gallic people and warriors just with my phalanx.

  What a nice plan for "prerelease" lol,i can tell you that i've been planning for that very long time.Like which faction i will choose when gets released and i chose Macedon of course.  BEST FACTION THERE IS!!!

Ahhh when i start talking about this i wanna kill myself because of my eagerness!

Kill the offtopic please. I checked the post thinking in new about Carthagian faction no in offtopic ( I admit it´s fun to read this but if you want to talk about military tactics please create a post here and we will share our ones.
Of course, around the pelop. mod not hegemony

Oh my bad...sorry about that 

 

[412thCadianGuardsman]

I hope Carthaginians get all sort of mercenaries

 

[tenerife_boy]

I hope Carthaginians get all sort of mercenaries

Look at 1st page

 

[JankoMega]

I hope Carthaginians get all sort of mercenaries

Look at 1st page

 

[Sahran]

Lynores, just marking this down so we don't forget & since I bug you too much in PMs.

I think it'd be a good idea to add a Phoenician (or Liby-Phoenician) marine to the Carthaginians. I was reading back and remembered you remarking about the Athenian's archers being put into the backmost ship during a sea battle in order to give them an extra edge in naval affairs, and it reminded me of Carthage's own predominance in that area within the Western Mediterranean. It wouldn't require any new material, just a various allocation of resources.

The context for it is various secondary resource commentary on Phoenicians being some of the primary marines of the Persian fleet (along with Egyptians and I imagine loyal Ionian Greeks) and primary visual depictions from I believe Carthaginian settlements in spain of Punic marines in linothoraxes (with vertical quilting, but that's not necessary). Now in the context of those visual depictions they are armed with smaller than an aspis round shields and probably javelins. We could arm them as such, or we could suppose the Phoenician origin of the Carthaginians would allow for the use of the bow. That might be better from a gameplay perspective and isn't a terrible assumption - I read somewhere the same assumption of Carthaginian 5th or 6th century charioteers using bows (rather than javelins or lances) in the Phoenician/Assyrian tradition.

My thoughts for equipping options are:

1) Replace the Libyan Infantry with "Liby-Poeni Marines". Keep the tunics, keep the javelins, keep the shield (Probably try and limit it to Numidian shields that look more 'sturdy'), add a helmet, remove the spear and give them a sidearm instead. We'd then have a "Poeni Marine" unit upgraded from it, wearing a linothorax, with the Numidian shield, javelins, sword, helmet. This would be the Carthaginians Domestic Peltast tree.

2) Create a new unit (offshoot from Libyan Spearmen) of "Poeni/Carthaginian Marines". Plain linothorax, helmet, bow, sidearm.

Two more stylistic and aesthetically pretty examples of Phoenician Marines. These aren't intended to represent them in the most historical context (There's some other artwork I'll upload which does a better job), it just looks neat. I do really like the 'frilly' edging of the tunics and the folded one over the other style of the bottom of the linen skirt beneath the padding & linothorax.
http://www.aeroartinc.com/phoenician-marine-holding-spearshaft-and-spears.html
http://www.aeroartinc.com/phoenician-marine-in-alternate-uniform.html

 

[tenerife_boy]

I like your idea mate, got my vote

 

[JankoMega]

Lynores, just marking this down so we don't forget & since I bug you too much in PMs.

I think it'd be a good idea to add a Phoenician (or Liby-Phoenician) marine to the Carthaginians. I was reading back and remembered you remarking about the Athenian's archers being put into the backmost ship during a sea battle in order to give them an extra edge in naval affairs, and it reminded me of Carthage's own predominance in that area within the Western Mediterranean. It wouldn't require any new material, just a various allocation of resources.

The context for it is various secondary resource commentary on Phoenicians being some of the primary marines of the Persian fleet (along with Egyptians and I imagine loyal Ionian Greeks) and primary visual depictions from I believe Carthaginian settlements in spain of Punic marines in linothoraxes (with vertical quilting, but that's not necessary). Now in the context of those visual depictions they are armed with smaller than an aspis round shields and probably javelins. We could arm them as such, or we could suppose the Phoenician origin of the Carthaginians would allow for the use of the bow. That might be better from a gameplay perspective and isn't a terrible assumption - I read somewhere the same assumption of Carthaginian 5th or 6th century charioteers using bows (rather than javelins or lances) in the Phoenician/Assyrian tradition.

My thoughts for equipping options are:

1) Replace the Libyan Infantry with "Liby-Poeni Marines". Keep the tunics, keep the javelins, keep the shield (Probably try and limit it to Numidian shields that look more 'sturdy'), add a helmet, remove the spear and give them a sidearm instead. We'd then have a "Poeni Marine" unit upgraded from it, wearing a linothorax, with the Numidian shield, javelins, sword, helmet. This would be the Carthaginians Domestic Peltast tree.

2) Create a new unit (offshoot from Libyan Spearmen) of "Poeni/Carthaginian Marines". Plain linothorax, helmet, bow, sidearm.

Two more stylistic and aesthetically pretty examples of Phoenician Marines. These aren't intended to represent them in the most historical context (There's some other artwork I'll upload which does a better job), it just looks neat. I do really like the 'frilly' edging of the tunics and the folded one over the other style of the bottom of the linen skirt beneath the padding & linothorax.
http://www.aeroartinc.com/phoenician-marine-holding-spearshaft-and-spears.html
http://www.aeroartinc.com/phoenician-marine-in-alternate-uniform.html

Really nice idea Sahran,but you think adding that now? Well i think it's almost done,so it wouldn't be good for us to wait even more...till he does this,what you posted about you Carthaginians  .

 

[Outlawed]

Thats pretty damn awesome.

 

[tenerife_boy]

hell yeah, making units for Lynores is easy, but nowadays I´m afraid he´s dealing with the scriptting and I fear this is the hardliest step to finish a mod like this one 

 

[imahappypanda]

i really like this mod and how it looks but there one thing about carthage i always liked which is war elephants its what deffines them but i have no idea if thats even possible (only seen one other mod do it and it didnt work well) anyway love the mod 

 

[Rhomphaia]

i really like this mod and how it looks but there one thing about carthage i always liked which is war elephants its what deffines them but i have no idea if thats even possible (only seen one other mod do it and it didnt work well) anyway love the mod 

Carthage at this point of history had no elephants but focused on hoplites, cavalry and chariots. Only with the war in Sicily against Pyrrhus did they come across war elephants. After facing Pyrrhus did they make use of elephants in war. For the time frame of the Peloponnesian War, Carthage should have no elephants. Maybe a sub-mod or optional download as mentioned on topic of Hellenistic phalanxes and Polybian and Camillian Romans elephants could be added.

 

[JScott17]

just a quick question but what are the gameplay differences between liby-pheonician and punic hoplites? aswell shouldn't the Iberians be sword armed?

 

[OldArchon]

Third favorite faction, very fine looking.

 

[Rhomphaia]

Interested; who's your top two? Carthage is my #1!

 

[FrisianDude]

Punic Hoplite:

Spoiler

Punic Noble Hoplite:

Spoiler

Hm, seeing these listed after each other suggests it might be an error that Punic Hopltes upgrade into Punic Noble Horsemen?

 

[Marsh_Price]

i really like this mod and how it looks but there one thing about carthage i always liked which is war elephants its what deffines them but i have no idea if thats even possible (only seen one other mod do it and it didnt work well) anyway love the mod 

Carthage at this point of history had no elephants but focused on hoplites, cavalry and chariots. Only with the war in Sicily against Pyrrhus did they come across war elephants. After facing Pyrrhus did they make use of elephants in war. For the time frame of the Peloponnesian War, Carthage should have no elephants. Maybe a sub-mod or optional download as mentioned on topic of Hellenistic phalanxes and Polybian and Camillian Romans elephants could be added.

but anyone that knows carthage knows them for havin war elephants

 

[FrisianDude]

Er, no. Anyone that's heard vaguely of them defeating the Romans knows that they had elephants in doing so. That does guarantee that elephants were a typical part of their armies at all times. Besides, if Carthage had had war elephants at the point of time TPW represents, then the Romans would surely have known how to deal with them when they were inevitably used against them, simply because they'd probably have heard of those big grey bastards smashing and smooshing Carthage's foes.
  But when the Romans did encounter Carthaginian war elephants, quite a few years after this mod, they were a big innovation and the Romans might have known about them but not in a war- capacity, so logically it follows there were no war elephants around the Mediterranean around this time.

 

[JScott17]

anyone have an answer as to the difference between Liby-pheonician, libyan and punic hoplites

 

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

anyone have an answer as to the difference between Liby-pheonician, libyan and punic hoplites

Historically? Phoenicians were the upper class, ethnic Phoenicians of Carthage. The Liby-Phoenicians were the upper class of the natives, the Libyans, who had managed to achieve high status in the Carthaginian society, often through military service. The Libyans were simply the native inhabitants of North Africa.