To my fellow mount&bladers who are disappointed at TW atm, on TW's business mode

[Blood Gryphon]

Another thing that is needed is the game having some kind of longevity. I can't remember which dev it was, but one of them said "you guys are playing past 10 years?" That changed my perception of this game's development a lot. No wonder why the clans slowly go extinct after so long. And now a bandaid is they reproduce but kids born after the game start are bugged.

Yeah 1.5.6 will increase the longevity of games, also new born kids activating at 18 was fixed in the most recent hotfix. So good news there

 

[kreamy]

It's been almost 9 months into the EA of Bannerlord. A lot of players have expressed their concerns, disappointments or even anger towards not only the current sate but also the prospects of the game as well as Taleworlds, the developer. I hope this thread will help people understand the situation and adjust their expectations. Important to notice though that this is just my opinions or conclusions that are not necessarily reflecting the truths.

Conclusion ahead: stop hoping that Bannerlord will turn out to be even close to your dream game, wait for mods and be prepared to pay for some of the better ones.

So I think a lot of people have already realized that there might be a discrepancy in the visions of devs and those of the players as to what this game should grow into. I would argue that this is due to TW's (kind of) unique business model, which, using terms of economics, relies heavily on positive externalities.

TW has created a unique and enjoyable mounted combat experience which, throughout the years, has developed into a fully-fledged sandbox game. However, a lot of we probably noticed that although the combat experience is quite good and unique, the sandbox part is very much in the lacking. This is perhaps because of TW's specialization and business model. Essentially, the community consists of two kinds of players: those who prefer the combat and those who prefer the sandbox/rpg experience. (Of course, there would be overlappings, but this dichotomy is important for marketing and developing strategies and thus for our discussion) TW is good at delivering first-class mounted combat experience but significantly less so, especially when compared to other developers, at delivering the other one. Fortunately for them, their game created huge possibilities and room for mods a majority of which have enhanced the sandbox department.

I think we can all agree with the previous section, as it's kind of obvious to veteran players. What's interesting is the implication of that. These mods are translated into positive externalities to the M&B games as they added great values to the product without the devs paying extra costs. Therefore, TW as a business is left with a very clear and viable strategy: focusing on the combat while trying to create a good sandbox base for modders. In lieu of the boring functions, just think like this: better engine and base -> better mods -> attract more players -> sell more copies/base; and better combat -> more players -> more copies sold. This is most likely the reason why TW intentionally wants Bannerlord to mainly be an action game (yes, that's most likely their vision for the game). Because they can leave half the work to modders, most of whom work for free, for free positive externalities, and better serve the players who prefer combat, and in the meantime try to appeal the wider audience (more action-based and fast-paced gameplay tends to accomplish that). In the business model, I would argue both the players and TW are the winners whereas the only losers, economically, are the modders before they start to charge for their mods or work out some agreements with TW.

Therefore, the best strategy for players would be: stop asking and expecting TW to deliver a better RPG/sandbox/strategic/etc. experience and waiting for mods while accepting the fact that the M&B franchise will turn into even more action-based and fast-paced games. And it would only be a matter of time before the mods stop being free, either through adding a price tag themselves or being incorporated into the TW business system and thus increasing the price of the base games.

Unfortunately, this thread might be nothing new to especially the veteran players (a lot of us already realized it and either give up the hopes or refuse to accept). Nonetheless, if it can help some members of the community be less disappointed and angry, and lead a more comfortable life, I will be a very happy man. I used to be that guy who cares too much thus concerns too much, now that I realize and accept it, I still care but am having a much easier time.

lets pay mod creators to make the mods we want. 5000 of us paying $10 will get a crack team to make the mods we deserve in a faster timeframe than TW can deliver us anything meaningful

 

[stevehoos]

This EA is not interesting, I have lost vigor to keep up with it. No new features to even try, just balancing and tinkering. No castle building, no gangs stuff, no ambush mechanic, nothing to do in towns... the game is bland. It's a great mod base. Again, I am not trying to be rude.

 

[Great White Nanuk]

lets pay mod creators to make the mods we want. 5000 of us paying $10 will get a crack team to make the mods we deserve in a faster timeframe than TW can deliver us anything meaningful

I've thought about this. Organizing a community that has membership fees so that we can hire modders to make the types of mods we want to see.

 

[Dreed89]

This EA is not interesting, I have lost vigor to keep up with it. No new features to even try, just balancing and tinkering. No castle building, no gangs stuff, no ambush mechanic, nothing to do in towns... the game is bland. It's a great mod base. Again, I am not trying to be rude.

Of course you will state your ideas unlike those that play the positive guy and blindlessly support TW without any thinking.

People who visit forums regularly of course desire for the best for this game and provide improvement ideas when necessary too, but if they kept silent at everything and just accepted hundreds of number tweaks and bugfixes as a good patch,TW would falsely believe everyhing was going good and playerbase were happy.

 

[VictorF]

...hence why modders from that period are just weird nerdy kids or lonely boomers...

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

As a former member of the first category, and a person who spends an inordinate amount of time arguing with the second, I challenge you to prove me wrong.

 

[xdj1nn]

Of course, this will be a very healthy approach too, although I personally find it not very economical or really affects the grand scheme. Anyway, I only write this to ease the burdens of those players who are disappointed or angry because they care too much.

I am a "disappointed and angry player", and all you've made me want to is to slap you in the face. Too many fallacies and assumptions.
TW does take feedback, and whatever vision they have for the game, they are going for it. Most in the active forums community were outspoken about being against having heirs and death, they went with it anyway (me, no, I was always for it, think it's a interesting addition that can be really well explored later down the line). So yeah, they are not "focusing on combat", sit back and chill, let people get pssd at them on their own, you have no business interfering with that, and just keep feeding them as much input you can about the game, because random feedback about the community won't help with anything.

 

[kreamy]

I've thought about this. Organizing a community that has membership fees so that we can hire modders to make the types of mods we want to see.

It doesnt even have to have be membership fees, although it is certainly also a good idea. Are there modders out there who would undertake this?

 

[JAOOGA]

wait for mods and be prepared to pay for some of the better ones.

But we already are paying like $50 bux for the game and its not even released yet

 

[Apocal]

lets pay mod creators to make the mods we want. 5000 of us paying $10 will get a crack team to make the mods we deserve in a faster timeframe than TW can deliver us anything meaningful

The closest I've come to game development is being a closed beta tester but I've dealt with contracting for software: $50,000 is about enough to get you laughed at. The amount you're looking at for fast, reliable work starts like in the mid six figure range and you need to be very clear about what you want.

Modders do a mindboggling amount of work for free because it is something they want to do. There are low odds they are going to value their time the same way when working on someone else's interests. Because that's called work.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

I have lost vigor to keep up with it.

I’ll believe it when I see it.?

 

[Mad Vader]

It's too complicated to get the community to pay the modders in an organized way (as you need a formal process for deciding which modders get how much), but individual or team crowdfunding works for anything.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

The closest I've come to game development is being a closed beta tester but I've dealt with contracting for software: $50,000 is about enough to get you laughed at. The amount you're looking at for fast, reliable work starts like in the mid six figure range and you need to be very clear about what you want.

Absolutely, non-modders and non-developers drastically underestimate how much coders and modellers get paid, even in an industry that underpays them. An overhaul mod for warband would cost you something like half a million dollars if it was commissioned like a normal video game.

Only sheer stubborn autism leads to good mods. It takes a special kind of crazy person to spend years working in a clunky code base to make a clunky game for free. Overhaul modders are essentially outsider artists. There is no amount of money you could pay an outsider artist to get them to do exactly what you want, and mods that are made by coherent teams are exceptionally rare and the vast majority fail.

 

[Akka]

The closest I've come to game development is being a closed beta tester but I've dealt with contracting for software: $50,000 is about enough to get you laughed at.

To put some emphasis on it, I'm a developer (not a game developer, just regular boring company dev), and 50 000 $ is about what my company would charge for four to six months of my time. Just mediocre me.
So yeah, good luck assembling a "crack team" of dev with that amount ^^

 

[Great White Nanuk]

The closest I've come to game development is being a closed beta tester but I've dealt with contracting for software: $50,000 is about enough to get you laughed at. The amount you're looking at for fast, reliable work starts like in the mid six figure range and you need to be very clear about what you want.

Modders do a mindboggling amount of work for free because it is something they want to do. There are low odds they are going to value their time the same way when working on someone else's interests. Because that's called work.

That is your experience. I've paid modders to make mods in the past. There is no market standard dollar amount. Some are worth more, others are worth less, and that's usually their judgement. It's no different than commissioning art.

To put some emphasis on it, I'm a developer (not a game developer, just regular boring company dev), and 50 000 $ is about what my company would charge for four to six months of my time. Just mediocre me.
So yeah, good luck assembling a "crack team" of dev with that amount ^^

I commissioned about 100-hours of work for $500. It didn't require a "crack team" of devs. You guys are looking into specific wordage way too hard.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I commissioned about 100-hours of work for $500.

?

 

[HugoTheFrenchMan]

I commissioned about 100-hours of work for $500.

Yikes

 

[Cordor]

I too comissioned many doom wads for 500 dollars at gun point

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

Back in 2008 any average joe could intuitively retexture something with no prior knowledge, hence why modders from that period are just weird nerdy kids or lonely boomers, but that isn't the case anymore and most modders are now actual 3d art students or coders who will probably go on to work for an indie company.

Add jobless losers with too much free time thanks to Covid.