The Turkish Army in Syria 2019

[Is Milse Póg]

5- Fortunately I am but we know how you Greeks unfortunately raped&genocided your way through anatolia. When  your kin Pontics started a revolt until they got suppressed you now use that as a political leverage just like armenians saying Greek pontic genocide.
Greeks have most of the time been the racist ones in Greek-Turk relationships.
We dont have a Greek hating party like you have Golden Dawn.
We demanded a united Cyprus when you genocided Turkish cypriots.
Even you here stand against us in every political event involving Turks.

I know I am beating a banned horse, but I'm not even Greek. I study the Greek language, but I have no relation to racist Greek nationalists or the whole Cyprus conundrum. As far as I know, many Cypriot regret their military coup government at the time pushing for Ένωσις (unification with the then junta-controlled Greece), which caused the Turkish-Cypriots to secede.

Also, why is Turkey so against a Kurdish country in Kurdish majority lands? This whole conflict sounds about "muh land". If Turkey doesn't mind the Kurds having a country, you should have a referendum for them and let them decide their own fate.

 

[Cioss]

Also, why is Turkey so against a Kurdish country in Kurdish majority lands? This whole conflict sounds about "muh land". If Turkey doesn't mind the Kurds having a country, you should have a referendum for them and let them decide their own fate.

You don't need to search under a rock for finding a reason. Even without a Kurdish state, Syrian regime were backing up Abdullah Ocalan and PKK back then, just out of regional rivalry. First, with a -YPG/PYD controlled- Kurdish state next to Syrian border can only cause worse things for Turkey. That would only help them to infiltrate to Turkey for behind the lines attacks, suicide bombing cities etc.

Second, as I have already posted something about this, some Kurds have the goal of establishing a big, united, independent(!) Kurdistan and their goal state has feet on 4 countries: Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. Iraqi Kurdistan is half-assed done. If Syrian one is also somehow established, that would only mean next one is Iran or/and Turkey.

At this point, that would meant lots of riots and revolts, mass conflicts, more and more destabilization and wating resources. With pushing YPG away from Turkey-Syria border, not only we someone prevent a PYD state, we also gave Syrian regime more power. There is only a small factions of rebels left in Syria Battle Royale. If we just pull our support back, Assad is the victor in months.

Besides all of this, who would like to see their countries falling apart and someone forming an enemy state from that?

 

[Princess Mikoto]

I know I am beating a banned horse, but I'm not even Greek. I study the Greek language, but I have no relation to racist Greek nationalists or the whole Cyprus conundrum. As far as I know, many Cypriot regret their military coup government at the time pushing for Ένωσις (unification with the then junta-controlled Greece), which caused the Turkish-Cypriots to secede.

Also, why is Turkey so against a Kurdish country in Kurdish majority lands? This whole conflict sounds about "muh land". If Turkey doesn't mind the Kurds having a country, you should have a referendum for them and let them decide their own fate.

'I don't hate Turkey blah blah. But why don't you just let them, not me, THEM, cut Turkey into pieces and take cake?'

By that logic, every nation needs a referendum.
Berlin will be split again, this time into Turkish Free City/District of Berlin maybe.
Greece and Bulgaria etc., gib Turkish clay back oh wait, right, we had some govermental ethnic cleansing there, did we not? At least Greece traded...

I claim Earth, please leave this star system or else!!!

 

[Hobeto13]

I love how same people find Turks nationalistic but at the same time want an ethno-state in certain areas in the World. What do you think a Kurdish government, which founded by a terrorist organization in the region, which attacked and killed civillians for a long time, will do when they have the power to decide the fate of the minorities in their borders? Do you think they will hug them with love and passion?

 

[Antonis]

Probably not. I imagine the Kurds would be as bad at state affairs and as violent as anyone on this filthy planet.
But by this logic, a lot of countries are to be 'shut-down', I think. Turkey would be among them, if we cared about historical accuracy. Be it the 14th century or the 20th century. United States, Great Britain, China, Korea, you name them. I'm willing to bet that at one point or the other, every and all countries were flagged as terrorist-loving, war-mongering, corrupted, evil. The do exist, however. Now, imagine someone that viewed another other ethnic and societal groups as terrorist elements, vilified them, deemed them unfit to be on planet Earth and tried to gas the **** out of them. Oh, wait...

 

[RhodokSargant99]

I know I am beating a banned horse, but I'm not even Greek. I study the Greek language, but I have no relation to racist Greek nationalists or the whole Cyprus conundrum. As far as I know, many Cypriot regret their military coup government at the time pushing for Ένωσις (unification with the then junta-controlled Greece), which caused the Turkish-Cypriots to secede.

Also, why is Turkey so against a Kurdish country in Kurdish majority lands? This whole conflict sounds about "muh land". If Turkey doesn't mind the Kurds having a country, you should have a referendum for them and let them decide their own fate.

'I don't hate Turkey blah blah. But why don't you just let them, not me, THEM, cut Turkey into pieces and take cake?'

By that logic, every nation needs a referendum.
Berlin will be split again, this time into Turkish Free City/District of Berlin maybe.
Greece and Bulgaria etc., gib Turkish clay back oh wait, right, we had some govermental ethnic cleansing there, did we not? At least Greece traded...

I claim Earth, please leave this star system or else!!!

Because in your examples, the Turks are migrants. In the case of Kurdistan, the native Kurds are, well, native. You're so contradictory -- "I claim Earth, please leave this star system or else" -- that you don't seem to realize that's what Turkey's done in the case of Kurdistan.

On the other hand, in actual, grounded-in-reality examples, Kurdistan in Iraq held a referendum on independence from Iraq.

In other referendums and peaceful dissolution: Scotland has held a referendum on its independence from the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom held a referendum on its independence from the European Union, Quebec held a referendum on its independence from Canada, Australia held a referendum on severing its personal relationship with Elizabeth II, the Belavezha Accords dissolved the Soviet Union into independent republics, the Velvet Divorce dissolved Czechoslovakia -- which had voluntarily entered into an equal union of Czechs and Slovaks -- into two distinct republics again, the United Kingdoms of Norway and Sweden were peacefully dissolved into two distinct countries, New Caledonia held a referendum on independence from France, Puerto Rico held a referendum on independence from the United States, South Sudan held a referendum on independence from Sudan and was created as a result of that referendum, Montenegro voted for and achieved independence from Serbia and Montenegro, Timor-Leste voted for and was created by independence from Indonesia, Bermuda held a referendum on independence from the United Kingdom, Bosnia and Herzegovina was created by referendum from Yugoslavia, as was Croatia and Macedonia.

The list goes on and on. Your argument is utterly ridiculous when you act like autonomous natives of the land are comparable to declaring a right of conquest to the solar system.

 

[Cioss]

Native, such a vague statement. Irrevelant. Irrational.

 

[RhodokSargant99]

Native, such a vague statement. Irrevelant. Irrational.

I suppose it's a super-vague statement if you aren't familiar with what native means. Like, some people are confused about where Armenians are native to. Hard to track their roots, for some reason, as if there was some sort of genocide.

 

[Cioss]

Spoiler

 

[RhodokSargant99]

Spoiler

Reported for lying.

 

[Cioss]

***** please, you are ignorant, go educate yourself. It's not even worth arguing with someone claiming those things. You don't even know that Kurds are Northern Iranian people who seperated later from Central Iranians in medieval times.

Your depiction of "natives" and "migrants" are not real. You are the one lying, report yourself. But definitely go learn some history.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about. Ugh...

 

[RhodokSargant99]

**** please, you are ignorant, go educate yourself. It's not even worth arguing with someone claiming those things. You don't even know that Kurds are Northern Iranian people who seperated later from Central Iranians in medieval times.

Your depiction of "natives" and "migrants" are not real. You are the one lying, report yourself. But definitely go learn some history.

You literally have no idea what you are talking about. Ugh...

Uh-huh. I pointed out that national referendums on self-determination have happened before, and that comparing it to making claims on the entire solar system was preposterous. You responded with a bizarre lie claiming I said to give them a country. Reported. Again.

 

[Cioss]

I pointed out that national referendums on self-determination have happened before

and?

comparing it to making claims on the entire solar system was preposterous

I didn't and I wouldn't. Because this is nonsense.

a bizarre lie claiming I said to give them a country

You mean the truth? You don't even know Turkey's politics and democracy but you are just coming out of nowhere and saying "hey, Turks, make some referandum for Kurds, ask if they want to build their own country". This is some high level outrageous nonsense I have seen in a while. You can't be serious if you think those two things are different.

So, why Kurds, 'natives' of that region, never had a Kurdish state on their own ever? If every country ruled those lands oppressed them that means either they are okay with that or they have no rights whatsoever. Just like I said before, those 'native' depiction of yours does not exist. Learn some history, not propaganda.

And report yourself for flaming me, ugh I feel so disgusting for having a contact with this kind of idiotness.

 

[RhodokSargant99]

I pointed out that national referendums on self-determination have happened before

and?

comparing it to making claims on the entire solar system was preposterous

I didn't and I wouldn't. Because this is nonsense.

a bizarre lie claiming I said to give them a country

You mean the truth? You don't even know Turkey's politics and democracy but you are just coming out of nowhere and saying "hey, Turks, make some referandum for Kurds, ask if they want to build their own country". This is some high level outrageous nonsense I have seen in a while. You can't be serious if you think those two things are different.

So, why Kurds, 'natives' of that region, never had a Kurdish state on their own ever? If every country ruled those lands oppressed them that means either they are okay with that or they have no rights whatsoever. Just like I said before, those 'native' depiction of yours does not exist. Learn some history, not propaganda.

And report yourself for flaming me, ugh I feel so disgusting for having a contact with this kind of idiotness.

You do realize that you aren't the only other person in this thread, right? I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to somebody who literally made that claim. I was (quite rightly) pointing out the preposterousness of comparing referendums on independence and autonomy to other referendums on independence and autonomy rather than the absurd argument of comparing them to making claims about the solar system.

You do understand this, right? Reported again.

 

[Antonis]

Technically, your both correct and partly wrong. Taken from Wikipedia, the 1st sentence in the article, the Kurds are defined as:

...an Iranian ethnic group native to a mountainous region of Western Asia known as Kurdistan, which spans southeastern Turkey, northwestern Iran, northern Iraq, and northern Syria...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds

By contrast, I do believe that the Ottoman Turks, predecessors of the modern Turks, were in fact, non-native to their current territories, in the largest part:

... was founded at the end of the 13th century in northwestern Anatolia in the town of Söğüt (modern-day Bilecik Province) by the Oghuz Turkish tribal leader Osman I.[18] Although initially the dynasty was of Turkic origin, it was thoroughly Persianised in terms of language, culture, literature and habits...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

Still, this is just from a historical perspective and I doubt it contributes significantly to the current situation.
@RhodokSargant99: Dude, please, stop with the freaking reports. As far as I can see, Cioss Julius U.X. didn't really break any rules. Stop crying to the mods, like they were your mom. It only serves to annoy them.

 

[Cioss]

Still, this is just from a historical perspective and I doubt it contributes significantly to the current situation.

Exactly. And there is more depth to it even taking it as a historical perspective only.

Ottoman Empire was the latest not the first, a common misbelief among foreigners. Before Ottomans, there were Seljuk Empire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk_Empire

Spoiler: Seljuki borders, 1092

Seljuks were quite different from Ottomans. Rulers were Turks, most of the citizens were Persians but diplomacy and official state language was Arabic due to religion.

Fun fact: I'm actually living in old capital of Anatolian Seljuks. Even local municipality is using the same double headed Seljuq eagle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Rum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konya

So yeah, if you think Turkish presense starts with Ottomans, you would think that Turks came here somewhere at 13th century. One needs to learn about Turkic history before anything else. At least Oghuz Turks and close branches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oghuz_Turks

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

imagine believing in a concept as crazy as an ethicity having a "homeland". ridiculous

 

[Calradianın bilgesi]

I support independence. Kurds and Turks do not care about each other’s concerns. Many Kurds are disillusioned about policies that make Turks better off and when Rojava gets attacked Kurds in Turkey feel deep distress whereas Turks feel pleasure. We do not share the same ideals, destiny and sufficient common ground. Many Kurds feel that the operation in North Syria is an imperialist occupation. We think that these people are traitors for thinking so, then we conscript them to our army and give them weapons. This is nonsense. We would be better off separate.

 

[Cioss]

With seperate you didn't mean giving almost one third of your lands to a group of people who are incapable of ruling, right? Seperation is another thing than giving people rights they deserve.

 

[Calradianın bilgesi]

It’s not my land, it’s the land of 80 million people, which includes Kurds. I don’t know how much land they deserve but there is no sense in having as your compatriots millions of people who want the Turkish army to lose in the latest operation, and conscripting them to your army, and giving them the right to vote to govern you