The RUSSIA thread

[Swissky]

I remember I heard that once.

Not a very reliable source. 

snip

Thanks for the sources and information, I just found it odd that they were trying to make it sound as if we were ready to launch missiles on Russian soil and all it took was for our Supreme Commander to order it to be done.

 

[Jhessail]

That's the crazy propaganda part that I was laughing at. Reinforcing the defences of Gotland makes sense and that's all that's actually been discussed in Sweden or in the West in general and it's a direct response to Russian saber rattling. Then the Putin-propaganda machine spins it 180 degrees to make it look like Sweden is the aggressor here 

 

[Swissky]

I think Putin has a boner for mid-1800's history. First Crimea(n War) and now he's learning how Italy and France made Austria look like the aggressor in 1859. 

 

[PinCussion]

I remember I heard that once.

Not a very reliable source. 

I could probably google it up but meh

 

[rejenorst]

Thanks for the sources and information, I just found it odd that they were trying to make it sound as if we were ready to launch missiles on Russian soil and all it took was for our Supreme Commander to order it to be done.

Well the sexier the headline or the more controversial or the more it plays on existing fears the more readers get lured to it. This is not really isolated to Russian news outlets either sadly, though more reputable outlets may have a less sensationalist/misleading approach in their headlines. I often find myself reading the headlines going WHOA wut wut?! Only to find out that the headline is completely off from the contents.

Nevertheless, calculated and deliberately misleading headlines can be used to shift perceptions and given that its a theme about NATO from the Russian perspective I am pretty sure that plays into it.

Spoiler

Some similar examples could be this from the NY Times and Telegraph:

Poles Steel for Battle, Fearing Russia Will March on Them Next. The article is about 30 Poles in particular and hardly about the entire country steeling itself in preperation for battle. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/world/europe/poland-steels-for-battle-seeing-echoes-of-cold-war-in-ukraine-crisis.html?_r=0

Putin could attack Baltic states warns former Nato chief
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11393707/Putin-could-attack-Baltic-states-warns-former-Nato-chief.html

He doesn't in fact outright state that Putin would launch an outright attack in fact he states that Putin knows he would be defeated but that there is a possibility or probability of a potential hybrid war.

As a rule never rely solely on a headline but always double check the content.

 

[Swissky]

I often find myself reading the headlines going WHOA wut wut?! Only to find out that the headline is completely off from the contents.

Same here. 

Spoiler

Some similar examples could be this from the NY Times and Telegraph:

Poles Steel for Battle, Fearing Russia Will March on Them Next. The article is about 30 Poles in particular and hardly about the entire country steeling itself in preperation for battle. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/world/europe/poland-steels-for-battle-seeing-echoes-of-cold-war-in-ukraine-crisis.html?_r=0

Putin could attack Baltic states warns former Nato chief
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11393707/Putin-could-attack-Baltic-states-warns-former-Nato-chief.html

He doesn't in fact outright state that Putin would launch an outright attack in fact he states that Putin knows he would be defeated but that there is a possibility or probability of a potential hybrid war.

As a rule never rely solely on a headline but always double check the content.

US and UK newspapers seem to be the most sensationalist, Continental and Peninsulan European news agency seem a bit more moderate.

 

[PinCussion]

I often find myself reading the headlines going WHOA wut wut?! Only to find out that the headline is completely off from the contents.

Same here. 

Spoiler

Some similar examples could be this from the NY Times and Telegraph:

Poles Steel for Battle, Fearing Russia Will March on Them Next. The article is about 30 Poles in particular and hardly about the entire country steeling itself in preperation for battle. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/world/europe/poland-steels-for-battle-seeing-echoes-of-cold-war-in-ukraine-crisis.html?_r=0

Putin could attack Baltic states warns former Nato chief
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11393707/Putin-could-attack-Baltic-states-warns-former-Nato-chief.html

He doesn't in fact outright state that Putin would launch an outright attack in fact he states that Putin knows he would be defeated but that there is a possibility or probability of a potential hybrid war.

As a rule never rely solely on a headline but always double check the content.

US and UK newspapers seem to be the most sensationalist, Continental and Peninsulan European news agency seem a bit more moderate.

Well we do have Expressen and Aftonbladet

 

[Mage246]

Sorry, but that NYTimes headline was entirely accurate. It's an article on a spike in people joining paramilitary groups out of fear of Russian invasion, and as such that is a good description of what took place. The only way the headline could have improved would be to make it "Some Poles" rather than just "Poles". It clarifies the meaning, but "Poles" wouldn't necessarily mean "all Poles", or even "Polish army", anyway.

 

[Bluehawk]

If it can be clarified, then it is not "entirely accurate".

 

[Mage246]

Precise and accurate are not the same thing.

 

[Bluehawk]

Perhaps in statistics, but in this case, imprecise language implies inaccurate information. Almost all headlines, by their nature, misrepresent their stories, but at the same time headlines become irrelevant when you actually read the stories.

 

[rejenorst]

^ This.

On a side-note but still on headlines; Vice news recently had to change one of its headlines from 'Now would be a good time to launch a nuclear attack on Russia' to something a bit more neutral like Russia currently vulnerable to nuclear strikes, which is what the article was about. It was not about advocating a nuclear attack but people seemed to get extremely upset with the original headline.

 

[Mage246]

That you think that a simple lack of the word "Some" in a headline is an indication of bias is more of an example of your bias than theirs.

 

[Patchouli Knowledge]

What bias could that show? Anti-newspaper?

 

[rejenorst]

That you think that a simple lack of the word "Some" in a headline is an indication of bias is more of an example of your bias than theirs.

No one is saying they are bias, we are saying that ambiguous or misleading headlines are there for the sake of expediency and sensationalism in order to generate interest in otherwise bland or boring articles. Thanks for trying though.

 

[Mage246]

And you totally lack any evidence of that in this instance, thanks for trying though.

 

[rejenorst]

Its self explanatory. "Poles Steel for Battle, Fearing Russia Will March on Them Next" is to ambiguous in comparison to "Some Poles training for etc.." or "Spike in Poles training for etc..."

The writer makes the claim that anxiety is sweeping Poland by looking no further than the miniscule spike in trainees at the Shooters Association.

Thanks again.

 

[Mage246]

You can read, right?

The paramilitary group, like more than 100 others in Poland, has experienced a sharp spike in membership since Mr. Putin’s forces began meddling in neighboring Ukraine last year.

It's using the one group as an example of activity that has been happening in others.

Another example for the reading-impaired:

A gathering a few days earlier in the city of Szczecin had 500 new cadets taking the oath. General Pacek estimated there were 120 such groups at the moment, with about 80,000 members, but he acknowledged that this was just a guess, as the groups are not required to report their existence or membership rolls.

 

[rejenorst]

I can also research. Paramilitary groups in Poland have been around longer than the recent threat of Russia. That stat alone doesn't mean much in terms of painting all of Poland as anxious in lue of a paramilitary existence that predates the current threat.

In fact if you omit the fact that many of the groups and memberships predate the current threat then it contributes to the headline distortion.

Further checking also shows that the article has misquoted as the estimates for volunteer paramilitaries is anywhere between 10,000 and 30,000. 80,000 is likely the International Institute for Strategic Studies' statistic which also lists high-readiness police force as paramilitary forces.

General Boguslaw Pacek, a defense ministry adviser, has conducted a countrywide survey and estimated total membership at around 10,000.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/20/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-militias-idUSKBN0MG24I20150320

Gressel argues that there are different ways of counting paramilitary personnel, stressing that a research institute as the IISS also lists high-readiness police force as paramilitary forces in its calculation of the paramilitary personnel.

“The voluntary paramilitary groups are something different. They are loosely organized, private groups that train with military or police force personnel and could form a new guerrilla army. A kind of soldier for the weekend,” he says and adds, that there are different estimations about their strength, ranging from 10,000 to 30,000.
http://euroviews.eu/?p=1173

The article itself also states that not everyone is joining due to a possible fight with Russia. In another article it mentions that some of these organizations which have previously received very little exposure suddenly found themselves in the lime light when Russia began meddling in the Ukraine so I am guessing free marketing is also a large explanation for Nationalistically inspired youth joining said organizations.

The above linked euroviews article has a much less ambiguous/distorted headline and goes into much better depth than NYT.

 

[Vicccard]

You presume that the Poles have only felt threatened because of recent events.