I downloaded version 1.06, where are the new scenes I went to several villages and didn't find them, the villages used vanilla buildings and they looked weird (leaning towers), then I went to the tavern in Athens but it was the vanilla tavern, but the new tavern scene i found in another town (can't remember the name), is it supposed to be like this or is my download corrupted? I also checked the cheatmenu for the new items and I didn't find anything (I was looking for the chariot, I wanted to test it), any help is appreciated
Yeah, the scenes have a problem, it might be because the new ones were based on multiplayer scenes. Sifis is on vacation now, he will fix them when he returns.
As for the chariot, I don't know if you followed the mod from before, but I lost most of my module files and had to work with a strange combination of module and text files(which are more difficult to work with, for me, at least). I added those directly in the text file, that's why it doesn't appear on the cheatmenu. But it exists on Markets and Xerxes, the Persian King has it. I will post a pic if you cannot find it, to give you some info on how does it look.
hi anderson, scenes have been made. you'll see a tavern whith a litlle
plantation inside the thing is that because of my mistake the scenes
where able to be passed only once in the game. so for example we have 3
spartan scenes, but the total of villages of sparta are 17. so what we need to is
copy the 3 scenes and divide the equally among the 17 scenes.
the game because of the nature that i made the scenes apparently won't let
us duplicate them.
i hope i or antonis come up whith an idea.
Hello there! I wanted to offer some advice or suggestions regarding corinthian helmets, first and foremost. This is all to do with realism and historical accuracy of the helmets themselves, so if that's boring stuff, no need to read further! The brief version of it is that I think there's not nearly enough variation in corinthian helmet in this mod; and there's also an over-abundance of a type that was not nearly so common at all, as far as I know. (the earhole-cut/flattened-back variant) I would like to suggest some different 'types', (by type I mean those with a specific kind of appearance that appear common enough to really merit being called one 'type' over another.. obviously these were all hand-made, and almost all simply deemed 'Kranos' in general), and I would like to give a pointer or two toward trends to definitely avoid.
Firstly we'll look at what to avoid; I thought I might pique your interest by showing you one awful example on the market which might have a bad influence on game models, (I've even seen it in 'accurate' artwork depicting hoplites that people are expected to learn from). It's bad joo joo in the re-enactment world. A mistake that is all too popular, because it was cheaply mass-produced in India/Pakistan with very little regard for authenticity, then re-enactors make the mistake of buying (due to cheapness and not knowing better) it and showing up in it, and then people go and make drawings, video game models, and other attempts at 'legitimate' depictions with helmets that don't belong in Ancient Greece! Or anywhere for that matter. *Clears throat* This helmet, is, well, garbage. It looks awful, and is not based on any historical find whatsoever. It has many issues and should not be even an inspiration for helmet make. There are plenty of clear images of museum helmets (which I will share), and definitely better-made reproductions out there. Ignorance is really the only reason that this thing is still around. Me and some other re-enactors are hoping to destroy it from the face of the earth. Via education. Ehh, eventually.
What, you might ask, is wrong with this blasphemous eyesore? Well, a few things. For one thing, like many cheaper helmets, (including one that I myself own), it features over-long cheek plates, and a dull, rounded out little nub nose, neither of which really correspond to museum findings. The plates are actually pretty impractical too, and would jab your chest if you so much as looked downward. Over-sizing in general is too common. These helmets were made to fit the shape and size of your head. That's a skull, plus a little inner room up top for some kind of thick padded inner cap (but the extra space is usually vertical, not enlarged in all directions), or for some, they are so well fit to the sides of your head at the temple, that all you needed to wear was a thick headband around the temple and it sat snugly on your head. Poorer re-enactment helmets tend to fit like church bells; they're too wide on the inside as if made to fit a giant's head, and there's too much space between the plates and your actual face.
Here's an example of models that are simply too large. Too wide on the inside, and still have much too long cheek plates.
Generally speaking, a snug-fit helmet is a good one; it won't jostle around and it saves lots of bronze.
So, common corinthian helmets don't typically have ultra-long cheek plates, and they usually have far more intricate and defensively-shaped angles than this prevalent cheapo model shows. In fact, most commonly, corinthian cheek guards don't go much more than a few centimeters south of the chin. Fancy that.
Let's have a look at some of those examples. A heads up, you may want to right-click + 'view image' to get the full picture for some of these if they're cut off.
Here's a nice museum horde. Shows you that more often than not, actual corinthian plates tended to end at or just below the chin, not extend for miles.
I'll start with some Archaic era corinthians.
These contain a lot. They started out rather bullet-shaped and flat, but later became more curved.
(hey look, a nubby little nose on this one, but still inappropriate for a later corinthian)
(some of these would be purposely bent and made less functional, to be offered as votive sacrifices)
(inner liner all around the inside added here, which we know was done historically)
And a perfect example of the more 'closed'-looking variation.
(thickened nasal)
Next, perhaps the most well known, well-loved, in my view most gorgeous corinthian type there was. Not sure if there's a singular name for it, but a good nick-name is 'Denda', as this was the inscription of what we believe to be the name of the armorer who made it, which was on a few other items as well I think.
(notice the bottom of these plates angle outward just slightly, I tend to think this is mis-shapen due to being crushed)
(Most browed types seem to follow a different design style)
(these plates are actually slightly unusually long; they're usually close to two nose-lengths on typical corinthians, little less, little more)
And finally, some nicely made modern replicas.
This was a museum piece being worn by some lucky lass. Notice the inward angling of the cheek plates, and if the helmet was centered, (probably with inner padding) such that the eyes sat in the center of the eyelets rather than the upper third, there would only be a few centimneters of extra plate hanging below. http://puu.sh/nDIfZ.jpg
Next, I call the 'browed' type, they tend to have an almost triangular look to them in the shapes involved.. sort of wedge angles to them.. some tend to be much more open at the mouth, and they almost always have a stylized embossed 'brow'. These, or some variant of these, tend to be the helmets that have the open ears and flattened out back, like what the bad helmet posted first was trying to imitate. They also tend to have a smaller nose.
On the left here.
(more open mouthed)
And a very good replica at last.
Now this one is unique. It is literally the only find I've ever come across that looks like the variant the cheapo model is based on. And it's obviously severely warped from it's time in the ground.
This chart was drawn up by Peter Connolly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Connolly), and in it, it shows #16 here which is the specimen we're looking at. Notice now how it looks nothing at all like that cheapo model.
And here is a much better attempt. Nose is fixed, cheek guards are..at least not straight down, though still a bit long. They just needed to flatten out and hammer back the neck-guard and they'd be set, but it's much better than cheapo McGee up there.
Anyway, that's all for this post! Too much corinthian-lewds for one night. But if you really wanted to study the suckers, there's some great examples up there.
Very nice! About the shae of the helmets(and all items in general), I tried to follow a route that helped with the default Warband body/head. That said, I Will see what I can to fix any models I can, with the help of the reference images.
One note, though, or rather thought. I believe that the more 'rounded' eyes, more open eyholes, what you say 'browed' Corinthian helmets are of a bit later day? Like middle to late 5th century. I am not sure, though.
Very nice! About the shae of the helmets(and all items in general), I tried to follow a route that helped with the default Warband body/head. That said, I Will see what I can to fix any models I can, with the help of the reference images.
One note, though, or rather thought. I believe that the more 'rounded' eyes, more open eyholes, what you say 'browed' Corinthian helmets are of a bit later day? Like middle to late 5th century. I am not sure, though.
Yup! You're correct. The curved archaic types (that don't look like flat, rounded bullets) come after the flatter ones. The smaller, fully-enclosed corinthians come before the others, and the ones with the brow, with the slightly longer cheek plates, and most certainly the ones with the cut out ear holes, and flattened backs, those are quite late in the corinthians' existence.
From what I've heard, speaking with people more knowledgeable than I, is that the number of those corinthians found with the open earlets and flattened backs, well.. I think the ratio of their existence compared to more 'typical' models is (ballpark estimate) something like 1:200 or greater at least, and when we take into account that we've found at least in the thousands, that's quite a small number. So they were very rare, and it is believed that, rather than a unique type, they were essentially older helmets that 'newer' hoplites made changes to to fit with the times. The only thing which might suggest otherwise is that they tend to all have the brow, so they were more commonly done on a later design.
Of course, and this is something that is easily worked into your mod, often a helmet was passed down a generation or two if it wasn't destroyed or sacrificed as an offering or something, so you might see a few older helmets in use by later hoplites. Though I wouldn't think by our date here we'd see any proto-corinthians or 'kegel' helmets. (Kegel's an older style on the top left - http://cache1.asset-cache.net/gc/520835197-there-was-considerable-variety-in-the-style-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=X7WJLa88Cweo9HktRLaNXklezBz6bl2uGgF0oZZxAv3jJsAl1OZzN%2FOzK%2FCL7%2FVWse9yNAB0e60cxBcGT630Lg%3D%3D )
I think the browed types would actually be a little later than our mod's date here.
I would expect to see fully-enclosed corinthians, curvy archaic corinthians, Ilyrians, and variations on the Chalkideon.
You know what, I'm going to add a good layer of tentativeness to my comments above regarding when one helmet 'type' appeared over another. Browed corinthians do not seem to be some kind of separate type. In truth it is simply an additional detail that could appear both on the earlier 'archaic' types and down to the latest types ever made.
This shot from Olympia shows some variation. Older on the left, later on the right. From the middle onward, just about all those style of helmet would be present in this mod. It is also quite possible that no cheek plate ever went more than one inch below the chin of a soldier. http://europaenfotos.com/peloponeso/cascos-museo-olimpia-9148.jpg
Regarding the open-eared and flattened neck-guard variants appearing in the 5th century, I can't completely confirm it, but this one is one of the few photo-examples of them, and it is dated to the fifth century. http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/illustration/corinthian-helmet-from-bastari-albania-greek-stock-graphic/148354928
So, some museum evidence of this fact about the brows.
Brows on Archaic Corinthians.
Brows on what otherwise appear to be standard, 'Denda' types.
And lastly, on the only two models of open-ear, back-flattened modified corinthians that I've personally ever seen.
I also recently found out that this one was also one of those types. In fact, this is the helm that Peter Connolly based his image on.
You can see it here, the earholes and the flattened back.
Well, that is very interesting. About the shape, disregarding the corruption and opening of the shape of the helmet after so many centuries buried, that speciment from Albania is really beautiful. My only 'concern' is what exactly 5th century means. Technically, 401BC was still 5th century.
On the other hand, I allowed some more contemporary stuff for variety's sake in the mod, so that wouldn't hurt at all, I think.
Two things, first, thank you for the great and very interesting post and the great reference images. With them, my job at texturing a brow will become much easier. And two, do you happen to know where is the last two pics of the collection from?
When researching the Corinthian helmet the earliest (latest?) example I found was in Scythia dated ~400 B.C., after that it's just the Apulo-Corinthian variants up until the end of the Roman Republic irc.
Just wanted to check if you greenlited this mod that seems to be using your resources for the most part.
Uuuuuhh, no, I don't have the faintest idea of what that mod is or who is the developer. Thanks for bringing this to my attention, man.
As for the corinthians, I do believe Xenophon mentioned them in his Αναβασις, the campaign took plae I think around 400BC. But yeah, they were pretty much outdated by then, replaced by more comfortable varieties, such as the Attic or indeed the Apulo-Corinthian.
Oh, no worries! I absolutely love Ancient history, as a budding re-enactor of Ancient Greece I should think I have to! I adore the corinthian in particular, but have endeavored to move past the stage of rabid fan mentality and further into what they actually looked like, how they actually fit, and naturally in that process, critiquing some of the very horrible re-enactor mutts that exist out there. (and yes, even I own what I would consider to be a bad corinthian; shape is okay but it's too large on the inside so it's got that bell phenomena to it).
I'm going to fix it.. just as soon as I figure out what is the best method to cut bronze sheet metal!
,
Antonis said:
Well, that is very interesting. About the shape, disregarding the corruption and opening of the shape of the helmet after so many centuries buried, that speciment from Albania is really beautiful. My only 'concern' is what exactly 5th century means. Technically, 401BC was still 5th century.
On the other hand, I allowed some more contemporary stuff for variety's sake in the mod, so that wouldn't hurt at all, I think.
Two things, first, thank you for the great and very interesting post and the great reference images. With them, my job at texturing a brow will become much easier. And two, do you happen to know where is the last two pics of the collection from?
Hmm, which two pics do you refer to? I might know.
Seek n Destroy said:
When researching the Corinthian helmet the earliest (latest?) example I found was in Scythia dated ~400 B.C., after that it's just the Apulo-Corinthian variants up until the end of the Roman Republic irc.
Just wanted to check if you greenlited this mod that seems to be using your resources for the most part.
I still need to find that damn reference, but I had read somewhere that Corinthians were in use later, just not widely whatsoever. I think I read that on busts, or steles (or what have you..carved things!), some do appear to be in use explicitly by generals/commanders/strategoi, etc. That's a bold claim, and I really need to go and find that source I read it from. If I do I'll post it.
---
Oh, lastly, regarding comfort, from what I've heard from other re-enactors, some aspects of the helmet's discomfort are actually slightly exaggerated in popular media. Hearing is one thing that is probably much worse with a sheet of bronze and possibly long hair over the area, but the heat I think is not really so bad outside of a fight. For a while, (before the metal heats up in the summer sun), it will actually act to keep the sun away from your face.
This good fella, (who I referred to already) has a couple of very good corinthian models, and he's told me the heat really isn't so bad at all. And he of course is talking from the climate of Greece personally, as he lives there. Of course, during fighting, no doubt it's this tight, well-fitting shape that exacerbates the issue. As long as you tilt it up out of combat I think you'll be okay. Of course, I don't necessarily disagree though with the reasoning that hearing and heat were good reasons as to why it was phased out. Something I've realized in summers here in North Carolina in the states, is that even with high heat, it's a lack of airflow that's a real killer. Huddled in that helmet during a prolonged fight in summer heat is probably not fun at all, and I think that's the biggest issue with the corinthian, kind of a lack of airflow, which is probably why the slit between the plates was often, (though not universally) kept open somewhat.
,
PS: I don't know who the modeller(s) is/are behind RaW's helmets, but if they made corinthians, they would undoubtedly be the best models out there in this community.
I think Rgcotl and Seek and Destory make models for RaW and they do an amazing job. Those engraved παριες(The cheekplates) are amazing!
Also, about cutting metal, you can use a grinder, it will take you some time, but I find it does wonderful shapes in metal objects. And that curved shape you want to achieve cannot be done otherwise. Another option(but I wouldn't suggest it, the only time I tried that was on metal pipes ) is to hea the object until orange red with a blowtorch and then using a hammer and break it. But it messes up with the molecular structure of the metal, if it is cheap, like tin or something similar. Generally, a grinder is your friend when shaping metal.
Lastly, about the pitcures, I was talking about these:
Childe_Rolande said:
You can see it here, the earholes and the flattened back.
I don't model, I just did a good part of the episema and other shield paintings and some other random retextures, the models are done by Rgcotl and Gothic Knight.
It seemed fishy that the random PGPW mod was using a good part of your stuff with no credits mentioned, hope it's resolved. It reminds me of that guy that was making RaW 3.0 or something like that in moddb, half naked Athenians and Spartans wasn't really what I had in mind for a 3.0 release
Thank you. I didn't visit that part of Peloponnese yet, believe it or not, only the eastern side.
Seek n Destroy said:
I don't model, I just did a good part of the episema and other shield paintings and some other random retextures, the models are done by Rgcotl and Gothic Knight.
It seemed fishy that the random PGPW mod was using a good part of your stuff with no credits mentioned, hope it's resolved. It reminds me of that guy that was making RaW 3.0 or something like that in moddb, half naked Athenians and Spartans wasn't really what I had in mind for a 3.0 release
Eh, the guy didn't have bad intentions, he said he was sorry and that was it. Although, some things I suggested asking from the people that made them, as they are not mine to give. And you shouldn't undermine texturing work, your shield episema are beautiful.
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But if you really wanted to study the suckers, there's some great examples up there.
