[S][1.125] -Black Sky- |v0.8.4| |Updated 18/06/10|

[SilentK]

also i see that the best units/equips are oriental (khergit khante)

dont get me wrong here, but they have the best archer/melee unit ingame, they pwn even immortals :s

in open battlefields, if u charge, their arrows will kill 1/4, then maybe the cavalry will have some luck if they still have their horses, then in melee they do decent, but in sieges

its impossible to take anything from them if they have Imperial Warrior/Soldiers en masse, their arrows will kill u, shield or not, since from those 200/sec arrows, some are bound to hit ur feet/head, then in melee, again, no matter the unit they will pwn them, since they stack together on the ramp, and the other ones simply shoot the ones on the side, u will win if ur lucky, but with HEAVY HEAVY losses...

its takes a long time to train those immortals/hired knights...

i'm now using them myself, in exchange of any other archer unit, haven't check their stats compared to vaeigr markams and rhodok longbow, but im damn sure i prefer these guys in any battle...


as for the items, make some eurocentric good items as well, im sure to prefer the samurai armor any time, in this current state, leg/bod armor from all items, low weight (only 18 i think)

while the black plate armor has only 61 body and 22 feet, thats the expensive and best one i think, while crude samurai armor is BY FAR better, low wight, etc

now i know that this kind of armor is suposed to have less weight, but its far too good for some 5k denars or w/e, while the black armor is 100k...

make some medieval armor style as well

i like both oriental and euro armor, thats why i would like both ingame, and not to have my end game/mid game goal be "get the samurai armor" then gg, u start to kill every1 lol (exagerated i know )

 

[The Darklord]

SilentK there warriors are good better than vaeigr marksmen (all the Marks got is +15 proff but do 11 less damage bow speed the same).
The Rhodok's longbowmen on the other hand are way better range troops with +20 more damage and +1 PD
BTW I found a possible bug with Rhodok bowmen & longbowmen there using itm_tutorial_arrows which means no damage bonus and the get about 4x as many arrows as anyone else.

 

[SilentK]

Hey also, this mod is missing the line "move court here", wich is deeply missed by me, since my first settlement captured was a castle... any help? on how to add that line to the game

 

[kmarple1]

Loving this mod! The best I've seen yet. I can't wait for the next version, since Diplomacy would be a great addition.

First, a question: in the first post, it mentions several packs that require quests to unlock. Given that the faction isn't implemented yet, as mentioned previously in the thread, is this content available yet?

Second, I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but for some reason the Legion bandit camps are filled with Swadian Mounted Crossbowmen. I expected Legion troops, I guess?

EDIT: It seems all of the non-roaming mountain bandits have been replaced by mounted crossbowmen. I came across a village infested with them...

 

[MountandBladeKinsman]

What?! Swadians are supposed to have the best Cavalry in Calradia! I think the Sarranids and the Swadians should swap Cavalry power... Sarranids have mail armor, and Swadians have plate armor... but whatever, this is your mod Ima make my own mod! Oh great mod BTW.

 

[SUBS]

What?! Swadians are supposed to have the best Cavalry in Calradia! I think the Sarranids and the Swadians should swap Cavalry power... Sarranids have mail armor, and Swadians have plate armor... but whatever, this is your mod Ima make my own mod! Oh great mod BTW.

Sarranids Mamlukes use;
Mamluke_Mail:        Body 48
                                Legs 16

Swadian Knights use;
Heraldic_Mail:          Body 50
                                Legs 16

also their helmet & boots are better than mamlukes. in terms of defense swadian cavalry is the best, offensive is a toss between, marauding knights, legion cavalry (as they both use lances) and imperial lancers.

talking factions cav, other than that Hired Knight-Captains are the best cav in game.

as to plate armour the only ones that use it are; swadian counts/lords/kinngs - and also the sisters of steel.

First, a question: in the first post, it mentions several packs that require quests to unlock. Given that the faction isn't implemented yet, as mentioned previously in the thread, is this content available yet?

i don't understand this - could you elaborate? packs that require quests & an unimplemented faction

Second, I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but for some reason the Legion bandit camps are filled with Swadian Mounted Crossbowmen. I expected Legion troops, I guess?

EDIT: It seems all of the non-roaming mountain bandits have been replaced by mounted crossbowmen. I came across a village infested with them...

yep this is a bug, probably wont fix be fixed until the 1.126 version of this mod is out. - its hardly major as they spawn without horses & are relatively weak although villages raided by them could be annoying.
although the bandit camps having them in is a tad weird.

-as to the issue with samurai armour being too good for the price, the reasoning behind this is it was the first thing i changed in the mod, enabled strange armour + flintlock pistol, although its currently overpowered consider it the same as playing with cheats on/firearms - its optional but if you want 'balanced' play you skip these, will hike the price up on the armour/more it competitive in future though.

- and yup imperial/soldiers still too strong, more nerfs to come.

 

[SilentK]

ah good to hear from you, the mod is indeed amazing

good to hear ur gonna nerf those imperials

also balance out the samurai armor, its far too good for 2-5k denars.. also their 2h sword, but i guess they are desinged to be better, just make them more expensive

 

[kmarple1]

First, a question: in the first post, it mentions several packs that require quests to unlock. Given that the faction isn't implemented yet, as mentioned previously in the thread, is this content available yet?

i don't understand this - could you elaborate? packs that require quests & an unimplemented faction

Apologies for that part. I got two mods crossed in my head. Those questions apply to Calradia at War.

Second, I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but for some reason the Legion bandit camps are filled with Swadian Mounted Crossbowmen. I expected Legion troops, I guess?

EDIT: It seems all of the non-roaming mountain bandits have been replaced by mounted crossbowmen. I came across a village infested with them...

yep this is a bug, probably wont fix be fixed until the 1.126 version of this mod is out. - its hardly major as they spawn without horses & are relatively weak although villages raided by them could be annoying.
although the bandit camps having them in is a tad weird.

Eh...the infested villages were full of mounted ones. The ones that attacked after I trained peasant milita were also mounted. Luckily my own troops were enough to beat them, but the peasants helping got slaughtered each time. The only time they weren't mounted was in the Legion bandit camp.

Anyway, can't wait for the next version! This mod has actually made me use tactics. I beat the Vanilla campaign using mainly charges of Swadian knights. Here they'd get slaughtered if I did it the same way. Pikemen (and halbrediers / spearmen / etc.) have forced me to change the way I use cavalry. I'm not used to charging a line of troops just to have my horse stop dead...

The only thing I've had an issue with balance-wise is upper-tier archers defending during a siege, particularly Rhodok longbowmen, but others as well. I can counter them in a field battle, but if they're defending in a siege they're nearly impossible to beat. My "solution" has been to hold my troops back while I snipe them myself with firearms, but I haven't found a non-cheating way to do it. Any troops that just run up the ladder will get cut to pieces, and the same goes for archers if you try to have them take them out before they go in.

 

[Selvhan]

That's my opinion but there is some of "game breaker" for me in this mod. I don't care if there is strong bandit patrolling the land but since the bandit are better than any merc, and they ride really fast.. it's more a pain in the ars than anything else.

Also, I don't think that a samurai armour is stronger than a plate armour, but that's your mod

 

[SUBS]

its still beta mate, hence the '0.8.4' which bandits are you talking about?

also its impossible for bandits to be better than any merc, as samurai masters and hired knight-captains are mercs, which are the 2 best units in game

currently bandits are meant to provide a step between loots & lords, (for this version anyways) when the module system made version of this mod is released you will see faction patrols 30-40 troops of a specific faction, paroling their lands which means i can rebalanced bandits accordingly as progression will now be, looters -> bandits& caravans -> patrols -> lords -> castles.....

and with that version, pretty much the only thing left to do is work on balance, keeping the factions strengths/weakness's but making them more equal

look at each unit as just as a design it can all change. i don't have any testers and its currently a 1man mod team, so yeah it lacks testing - let me know what your opinions are, and if i agree with you its likely to get changed.

#kmarple1, i agree with you on offensive sieges that you get completely raped by archers, but realistically that should happen so i sorta like it, don;t get me wrong i think its a but much right now but i want to keep archers effective in sieges just toned down a bit.

#Selvhan, check my previous post about the samurai armour. yes plate should be the heaviest armour.

#kmarple1, about the tactics i know what you mean(i like setting a line of shields, and right behind that pikemen, stops cav charges dead) i just wish i could get lords to use them, as opposed to (infantry heavy) making a huge line and walking into a corner of the map or (ranged heavy) lords forming a line and sitting there for half an hour or until you advance on them.

honestly it would be nice to have a script that kills all lords, aim being units form up as lords tend to make a line, (here the lord is KO'd) which would cause the units to charge. (remember right now black sky is still using 1.113 as a base so how lords act is on that) maybe will be improved when updated to 1.126 but as i haven't played a lot of native i don;t know if they improved it enough.

 

[kmarple1]

#kmarple1, about the tactics i know what you mean(i like setting a line of shields, and right behind that pikemen, stops cav charges dead) i just wish i could get lords to use them, as opposed to (infantry heavy) making a huge line and walking into a corner of the map or (ranged heavy) lords forming a line and sitting there for half an hour or until you advance on them.

honestly it would be nice to have a script that kills all lords, aim being units form up as lords tend to make a line, (here the lord is KO'd) which would cause the units to charge. (remember right now black sky is still using 1.113 as a base so how lords act is on that) maybe will be improved when updated to 1.126 but as i haven't played a lot of native i don;t know if they improved it enough.

When I played through Vanilla (1.126), Lords definitely charged. No tactics required at all, though, just a lot of Swadian knights.

There are advantages with them lining up when most of their forces are infantry, though. You can advance 10 paces at a time to get the lines almost on top of each other, then charge. Cuts them apart. Also easier to take advantage of the lay of the land. I like to find a tall hill with a depression at the base. Put my archers on the hill, spread them out twice, and line up infantry and cavalry in the depression. Thanks to the depression, most ranged stuff won't be able to hit them until they can hit back.

Also, a quick request (if you don't have time, that's cool): Any chance of getting complete troop trees? I printed the ones from your first post, but I've noticed several units that aren't listed in them. Mainly units you'd get by recruiting prisoners after a battle, like rogues.

Finally, in the spirit of beta-testing, a few other possible bugs. Take them or leave them as you see fit:
- Lords don't always spawn with horses (may be intentional?)
- Bandits in villages MAY spawn with horses (both regular bandits and mounted crossbowmen). Happens with regular infestation and the "train peasant militia" quests.
- "Accompany" option when right-clicking a friendly party is missing (May be due to version, though).
- My relationship with a lady shot up from 0 to 30 after introducing myself to start a courtship. No poems, nothing. Just accepted the marriage proposal in the next convo.
- Reinforcements on some siege maps can spawn in areas where they can't get out and you can't kill them (ex: in a building / behind a wall for defenders in the Veluca(?) map)
- Some other script errors, probably due to version mismatch (mainly something about npc checklist for taking a stand on issues?)

UPDATE: New bandit factions also seem overly aggressive. Vanilla bandits would avoid you if horribly outnumbered. These don't. I'm broke and I outnumber them 2 to 1, but they keep attacking me. It does get annoying.

 

[The Darklord]

- My relationship with a lady shot up from 0 to 30 after introducing myself to start a courtship. No poems, nothing. Just accepted the marriage proposal in the next convo.
- Reinforcements on some siege maps can spawn in areas where they can't get out and you can't kill them (ex: in a building / behind a wall for defenders in the Veluca(?) map)

The relationship thing is a part of Vanilla relationship manager, the admirer bonus depends on at lest 2 things your charisma and a randomized value produced for the lady. So in this case I geuss your hero has fairly high charisma and the lady got a low value = tons of rep.

As for Sieges are you using large battlesizer values? As it a known issue with battles with large battlesizer numbers (try dropping it for sieges).

 

[kmarple1]

As for Sieges are you using large battlesizer values? As it a known issue with battles with large battlesizer numbers (try dropping it for sieges).

Values are whatever the mod uses; I haven't changed them.

Anyway, a suggestion for the mod based on something interesting I figured out. Currently, you can join any battle on either side. It turns out that if you side with bandits when they're fighting someone else, winning will improve your relationship with that bandit faction. It would be cool if this could be used to get that faction to stop attacking you, and possibly let you recruit from their camp. This would be especially useful given how powerful the bandit units are in the mod.


EDIT:

Hey also, this mod is missing the line "move court here", wich is deeply missed by me, since my first settlement captured was a castle... any help? on how to add that line to the game

Did you ever find a solution to this? My court just got capped, now it's bugging me every 30 seconds or so that my court has nowhere to go, but I don't have the option to MOVE it to my other fiefs. Definitely a game-breaking bug.

 

[Boro]

So I'm having a... problem with this mod. So far I really like the unit design, but throwing weapons seem a bit too insane. Upping the amount you can hold and damage is fine to put them more in line with archery, but I've been playing a game for quite some time now as a member of the Rhodoks and finally we're at war. With the Sarranids. I've done quite well against them on the open field, only getting sniped off my horse by an errant jarrid a handful of times. However, when I went to seige one of their castles by myself (Since the Marshal seemed to content to just raid villages) I was getting obliterated.

I brought with me all of the companions equipped as heavy infantry, and a force of maybe 110 Rhodok infantry and 40 Longbowmen. The Infantry were all last or second-to-last tier, all with shields. I besieged a castle of around 140, and every time I've tried to fight this battle, almost every single soldier dies before we even get to the ladder. They have an absurd amount of skirmishers, and their javelins are one shotting my Rhodok Guard. I tried bringing around 100 Longbowmen and backing way up to the edge of the map to try and snipe all the skirmishers off, but even at that range the Longbows would kill 2 or 3 before getting wiped out javelins.

Long story short: At least in defense of a castle, mass throwing weapons are proving to be way too powerful. It seems the only real options are to be an archer character, or somehow get a party size of 300+.

 

[Mno]

Reading through the mass of posts I can't seem to find the answers I want.

Is combat/map AI (autocalc) changed in any negative way?
-Some factions get a greater (or lesser) advantage in autocalc with the new units.


Is the rebel function/method under construction? I tend to use that to create a kingdom.
I really want to play with new troop trees, and this mod looks like a lot of fun, without changing the factions fundamentals (too much).

Will this mod be refitted for 1.126, using that as base (and not 1.113 as base)?


Great work, either way
Cheers

 

[SUBS]

nikitus is having a crack at remaking the mod using the module system, already has diplomacy in - plus a few other kits, still a fair bit to do on this though so maybe 2-3 weeks.

which is basically means the mod will be remade on 1.126 meaning all bugs that are fixed in native will also be fixed in this mod, courts not showing/rebeling etc....

although think hes had to slow down a bit due to a busy schedule.


#auto calc is not changed at all, all factors used in native are used here, honestly though i haven't used the feature in warband yet, except maybe a couple 300v10 fights.

 

[SilentK]

As for Sieges are you using large battlesizer values? As it a known issue with battles with large battlesizer numbers (try dropping it for sieges).

Values are whatever the mod uses; I haven't changed them.

Anyway, a suggestion for the mod based on something interesting I figured out. Currently, you can join any battle on either side. It turns out that if you side with bandits when they're fighting someone else, winning will improve your relationship with that bandit faction. It would be cool if this could be used to get that faction to stop attacking you, and possibly let you recruit from their camp. This would be especially useful given how powerful the bandit units are in the mod.


EDIT:

Hey also, this mod is missing the line "move court here", wich is deeply missed by me, since my first settlement captured was a castle... any help? on how to add that line to the game

Did you ever find a solution to this? My court just got capped, now it's bugging me every 30 seconds or so that my court has nowhere to go, but I don't have the option to MOVE it to my other fiefs. Definitely a game-breaking bug.

tried adding the option by myself, but no success, so no ... i hope for the new version to have it

 

[possum]

can anyone tell me how deadly the combat in this mod is?

f.e.
if i hit an unarmored looter with a sword/arrow, will he die instantly or often stay alive like in the native game?

i am looking for a mod like "barren lands" for m&b and all the mods i tried until now could not give me the same satisfaction i got from the "barren lands" mod.

 

[The Darklord]

Dunno what you been using weapon-wise but I never had a "naked" looter live past my first weapon hit in any version

 

[possum]

Dunno what you been using weapon-wise but I never had a "naked" looter live past my first weapon hit in any version

ok, the naked looter was maybe a bit to much but i am sure you know what i meant.

some weapons seem to weak (NOT TO SLOW) in native sp for me. low armored troops could take a lot damage before going down.
so can you tell me how the combat is in this mod compared to the native game.