PoP Official 3.9 Changelog [OLD]

[Ralyks18]

What if the  possibility of recruiting/rescuing prisoners depended not only on their level, but on a combination of their level and the player's relations to the prisoner's faction?

You sell the troop to a Red Brotherhood Agent, he gives no f*cks if you're friendly, neutral or vengeful against the D'Shar, he just wants that D'Shar Warrior and will offer x for it. You don't pay to free a troop, but to sell them into slavery. You don't get paid by the faction, but by the Red Brotherhood, they judge the value of a troop through their level.

Not a bad idea, but not needed, nor very logical if you think deeper to it.

 

[mr48]

What if the  possibility of recruiting/rescuing prisoners depended not only on their level, but on a combination of their level and the player's relations to the prisoner's faction?

You sell the troop to a Red Brotherhood Agent, he gives no f*cks if you're friendly, neutral or vengeful against the D'Shar, he just wants that D'Shar Warrior and will offer x for it. You don't pay to free a troop, but to sell them into slavery. You don't get paid by the faction, but by the Red Brotherhood, they judge the value of a troop through their level.

Not a bad idea, but not needed, nor very logical if you think deeper to it.

Well the Red Brotherhood have a totally different attitude and purpose for the prisoners than the player: They keep them as disarmed captives until their families either pay a ransom or the prisoner is sold off to be a galley slave. On the other hand when the player recruits/rescues a prisoner he gives them back their weapons and expects them to fight for him, so there is an inherent aspect of loyalty at play here.

So as I said before, making this change would make the game more interesting for players by giving them a way to recruit exotic troops by diligently cultivating an alliance with their faction, while not allowing for illogical party compositions of troops that should hate the player's guts.

For example if the player is at war with the Snake Cult and trying to exterminate them from Pendor, he shouldn't be able to also recruit his own little army of Cobra Warriors. At the same time, if I'm a high-ranking Sarleon vassal/Lord, then why shouldn't a Sarleon Knight that I rescued be allowed to join me?

 

[Lord Irontoe]

What if the  possibility of recruiting/rescuing prisoners depended not only on their level, but on a combination of their level and the player's relations to the prisoner's faction?

You sell the troop to a Red Brotherhood Agent, he gives no f*cks if you're friendly, neutral or vengeful against the D'Shar, he just wants that D'Shar Warrior and will offer x for it. You don't pay to free a troop, but to sell them into slavery. You don't get paid by the faction, but by the Red Brotherhood, they judge the value of a troop through their level.

Not a bad idea, but not needed, nor very logical if you think deeper to it.

Well the Red Brotherhood have a totally different attitude and purpose for the prisoners than the player: They keep them as disarmed captives until their families either pay a ransom or the prisoner is sold off to be a galley slave. On the other hand when the player recruits/rescues a prisoner he gives them back their weapons and expects them to fight for him, so there is an inherent aspect of loyalty at play here.

So as I said before, making this change would make the game more interesting for players by giving them a way to recruit exotic troops by diligently cultivating an alliance with their faction, while not allowing for illogical party compositions of troops that should hate the player's guts.

For example if the player is at war with the Snake Cult and trying to exterminate them from Pendor, he shouldn't be able to also recruit his own little army of Cobra Warriors. At the same time, if I'm a high-ranking Sarleon vassal/Lord, then why shouldn't a Sarleon Knight that I rescued be allowed to join me?

Makes sense. Perisno works like that. It has the added benefit that any rescued hostiles become sellable prisoners, meaning you can often get plenty of prisoners without having any blunt weapon troops

 

[MitchyMatt]

That's not a design choice we decided on. It is something that will never be added at this point.

Also we have new interesting ways of obtaining some foreign troops and some mercenaries.

Not really going to put in such an elaborate system that wouldn't work for factions like Heretics or Snake Cult where the relations will always remain in the negatives.

 

[Striptokop]

Also we have new interesting ways of obtaining some foreign troops and some mercenaries.

Does it mean I can finally do a Melitine-themed playthrough without praying to RNGsus to get the needed troops in taverns in 3.9? 

 

[Styxt]

WOW !! 

I knew there was a lot going on behind the scene, but wow. That is an impressive amount of improvements here !!

Thanks again and good job !! 

 

[mr48]

That's not a design choice we decided on. It is something that will never be added at this point.

Also we have new interesting ways of obtaining some foreign troops and some mercenaries.

Not really going to put in such an elaborate system that wouldn't work for factions like Heretics or Snake Cult where the relations will always remain in the negatives.

I respect your vision for the game, but to me personally it makes more sense to cut off access to troops from factions like the Snake Cult and Heretics which it is your task as the player to exterminate, rather than being unable to rescue high-tier prisoners from your own faction! Probably one of the most fun in-game activities is to stalk enemy war-parties and plan elaborate schemes of rescuing valuable prisoners.

 

[Styxt]

Spoiler

That's not a design choice we decided on. It is something that will never be added at this point.

Also we have new interesting ways of obtaining some foreign troops and some mercenaries.

Not really going to put in such an elaborate system that wouldn't work for factions like Heretics or Snake Cult where the relations will always remain in the negatives.

I respect your vision for the game, but to me personally it makes more sense to cut off access to troops from factions like the Snake Cult and Heretics which it is your task as the player to exterminate, rather than being unable to rescue high-tier prisoners from your own faction! Probably one of the most fun in-game activities is to stalk enemy war-parties and plan elaborate schemes of rescuing valuable prisoners.

I agree with you on the main idea but :
_ being able to rescue high level prisoners from the start would make the game too easy. You probably should have a level superior to the unit you want to recruit.
_ often "high level units" refers to knights. In this case they are minor nobles, not random levy, and can choose to serve you or not. In this mod, only the nobles that decided to rally your cause will serve you (and it makes perfectly sense IMO)

 

[Dusk Voyager]

Also, why shouldn't the player be able to recruit Heretic or even Snake Cult troops? I know the player isn't supposed to be evil, but you can already hire heretics, ex-Snake Cult members, Jatu/Singalians and other companions who are far from goody-two-shoes, and just because some of your troops happen to be bad guys doesn't make you one. The "level" argument could also work for "evil" regular troops in that as long as they aren't knee-deep into the dark arts, they can be redeemed or at least be convinced to fight for a good cause.

 

[JohnnyZhu]

I never understood why I couldn't rescue and recruit the EXTREMELY RARE noldor soldiers from parties even more so since I'm in EXTREME good relations with the Noldors... And the game is all about the NOLDORS having the only capable firepower to stop all the big evil war parties.
Please 3.9? Please!

Loving all your works so far, would love to get a response from the dev team about this.

-Longtime fan of PoP

 

[mr48]

Spoiler

That's not a design choice we decided on. It is something that will never be added at this point.

Also we have new interesting ways of obtaining some foreign troops and some mercenaries.

Not really going to put in such an elaborate system that wouldn't work for factions like Heretics or Snake Cult where the relations will always remain in the negatives.

I respect your vision for the game, but to me personally it makes more sense to cut off access to troops from factions like the Snake Cult and Heretics which it is your task as the player to exterminate, rather than being unable to rescue high-tier prisoners from your own faction! Probably one of the most fun in-game activities is to stalk enemy war-parties and plan elaborate schemes of rescuing valuable prisoners.

I agree with you on the main idea but :
_ being able to rescue high level prisoners from the start would make the game too easy. You probably should have a level superior to the unit you want to recruit.
_ often "high level units" refers to knights. In this case they are minor nobles, not random levy, and can choose to serve you or not. In this mod, only the nobles that decided to rally your cause will serve you (and it makes perfectly sense IMO)

Your first point seems logical, and I totally agree that this limitation should be implemented. Regarding the knights being able to choose whether to serve you or not thats fine too, let there be a probability of them agreeing (with the chance of success being based on relationship with their faction for example). This probability can even be rather low, but them being completely forbidden to join your party even under the most favorable conditions seems overly restrictive.

Also, why shouldn't the player be able to recruit Heretic or even Snake Cult troops? I know the player isn't supposed to be evil, but you can already hire heretics, ex-Snake Cult members, Jatu/Singalians and other companions who are far from goody-two-shoes, and just because some of your troops happen to be bad guys doesn't make you one. The "level" argument could also work for "evil" regular troops in that as long as they aren't knee-deep into the dark arts, they can be redeemed or at least be convinced to fight for a good cause.

If you choose to do a "dark side" play-through and cultivate relationships with the Heretics or Snake-Cult then of course its perfectly fine to recruit their soldiers. I was only speaking about an example situation where a player goes for the official victory condition which includes destroying the Snake Cult and Heretics.

 

[Ralyks18]

Also, why shouldn't the player be able to recruit Heretic or even Snake Cult troops? I know the player isn't supposed to be evil, but you can already hire heretics, ex-Snake Cult members, Jatu/Singalians and other companions who are far from goody-two-shoes, and just because some of your troops happen to be bad guys doesn't make you one. The "level" argument could also work for "evil" regular troops in that as long as they aren't knee-deep into the dark arts, they can be redeemed or at least be convinced to fight for a good cause.

If you choose to do a "dark side" play-through and cultivate relationships with the Heretics or Snake-Cult then of course its perfectly fine to recruit their soldiers. I was only speaking about an example situation where a player goes for the official victory condition which includes destroying the Snake Cult and Heretics.

I suggested a "starting relations" new set up, in where thats one of the things i speak of, that is not supposed to happen. The player should not be able to befriend the 4 factions that he must destroy/obliterate. Ofc you can force them to be still your friends, but its not intended. A demon will not ally with an human and the human should not trust Snake Cult for example, they're not trustable, etc...

Sorry for the very few that decided to befriend the Snake Cult or Heretics in their "yolo" gameplays. If you want to do that, tweak your files, ill be pleased to tell you how. But it was very hard to do in 3.8 already as you started with -40 or -50 relations, but i still found some players speaking about doing this.

Not accepted nor declined yet, so i cant say more. But i hope it gets submitted.

 

[Dusk Voyager]

If you choose to do a "dark side" play-through and cultivate relationships with the Heretics or Snake-Cult then of course its perfectly fine to recruit their soldiers.

Where did that come from? There's nothing wrong with recruiting individual "evil" troops. It doesn't mean you have to go down the slippery slope and "befriend" the whole faction. You can't peacefully convert them as a faction rather than destroy them either, because almost any reasonably large party of them is led by some corrupted, dyed-in-the-wool demon or priestess.

 

[lconracl]

Script prevents players to have positive/to high relations with some factions (e.g. Heretics and Snakes).

 

[BananaFruit]

Since Sarleon will have a commoner cavalry unit in 3.9, will Squires of the Lion be upgraded from this Sarleon Cavalry?

 

[lconracl]

Not decided yet.

 

[King Edric]

I would like that Queen Agnus Freebooters are reworked a bit, right now they are just like Vanskerry Warriors. Just change up their armour, make them look more unique!

 

[BonerLord]

I never understood why I couldn't rescue and recruit the EXTREMELY RARE noldor soldiers from parties even more so since I'm in EXTREME good relations with the Noldors... And the game is all about the NOLDORS having the only capable firepower to stop all the big evil war parties.
Please 3.9? Please!

Loving all your works so far, would love to get a response from the dev team about this.

-Longtime fan of PoP

From what I know, lore wise. Is that the Noldor hate Humans and they have to go back to their cause, lord otherwise they would end up exiled. Like the companion you can hire in Taverns and no Noldor would change his live and culture, just to end up in your bad smelling monkey ? party.. You can only buy them out from their lords then they get orders to hang around with you and the Monkey Crew.

Hope that helps to understand

 

[Ralyks18]

I would like that Queen Agnus Freebooters are reworked a bit, right now they are just like Vanskerry Warriors. Just change up their armour, make them look more unique!

Their level was reduced from 40 to 36 so that they can be freed from prisoners pack and added to your company. This also makes their wages be lower.

Their wages went down again as they are no longer considered mercenaries. Also, if you're lucky to have the first Queen Agnus Vanskerry (the picture that shows in your party) be infantry and not cavalry, her wages will be even lower, the same wages as a Fierdsvain Huscarl (in 3.8.4, if it was a rider, they were alike a Hero Adventurer)

I never understood why I couldn't rescue and recruit the EXTREMELY RARE noldor soldiers from parties even more so since I'm in EXTREME good relations with the Noldors... And the game is all about the NOLDORS having the only capable firepower to stop all the big evil war parties.
Please 3.9? Please!

Loving all your works so far, would love to get a response from the dev team about this.

-Longtime fan of PoP

From what I know, lore wise. Is that the Noldor hate Humans and they have to go back to their cause, lord otherwise they would end up exiled. Like the companion you can hire in Taverns and no Noldor would change his live and culture, just to end up in your bad smelling monkey ? party.. You can only buy them out from their lords then they get orders to hang around with you and the Monkey Crew.

Hope that helps to understand

@JohnnyZhu they're getting some love. You will be able to recruit more of these from Arandur & Quigfen, and even though all Noldor troops except the hunters cant be freed to join your party, the Quigfen's jatu spawn will now have Noldor hunters instead of warriors, meaning that defeating this spawn will get them to your party

Also, there's 3 new ways QG-free where you can get (if lucky) Noldor troops. Not many, but a couple, just for flavor. Try to keep them alive

@HooTmAn they dont hate humans because they're bored. They hate humans because they invaded their peaceful land, murdered their people and forced them to hide in the forests. They seek revenge (logically) as well as recover their lands, but they know they are not strong enough, and they just see that what was once their land, is now a constant battlefield, but not just between the actual 5 kingdoms, but also from other outsiders.

 

[BonerLord]

@HooTmAn they dont hate humans because they're bored. They hate humans because they invaded their peaceful land, murdered their people and forced them to hide in the forests. They seek revenge (logically) as well as recover their lands, but they know they are not strong enough, and they just see that what was once their land, is now a constant battlefield, but not just between the actual 5 kingdoms, but also from other outsiders.

you are bored.. But yeah totally what you sad and the Monkey stuff, make them dislike humans.. What is the reason they wouldn't just freely join your Party in da game