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Poll: Class System vs. Warband Loadout Customization
- Thread starter Kylbee
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I like the hybrid system where different game modes determine whether or not there are premade classes or customizable load outs...but why in the hell is siege included in the custom load outs choice???
Siege and captain mode are the two modes where I would want the most team organization/comp. I don’t want naked men with 2handed swords standing on my castle walls
Siege and captain mode are the two modes where I would want the most team organization/comp. I don’t want naked men with 2handed swords standing on my castle walls
I want a server or several with battle and siege where you have your own created characters that you can put skills into and all, and you buy and select the gear yourself. If anyone knows c-RPG in anyway that is how I want it. To earn your own denars and experience whilst having freedom to equip yourself with what you want/need. Furthermore having the ability to put out your own skill points and attributes makes for very interesting games... and flavourful. You can tell who is who usually and you need to co-ordinate to bring the right gear for the right situation.
I played many thousands of hours of multiplayer and disagree - it makes little fundamental difference to the game... you like alot of people arguing for it have blown it way out of proportion.
I'd say that the exception proves the rule, though I do exaggerate.
If these were some "little fundamental differences" there wouldn't be so much opposition to it. But there is, meaning its not a little fundamental difference.
I will reiterate what I had said previously; Pretending that the Bannerlord system is anything but a watered down, casual version of the previous games system is level of mental gymnastics I am not yet prepared to tackle. It will struggle to lend itself to competitive play, it has watered down casual play, and is a grave insult to the sheer amount of armours that are currently available in this game.
Any argument for a class system is fairly incoherent, and boils down to "irrelevancy" in terms of the selection available to the player, in that specific situation. I think the real word they're looking for here, is options. There is irrelevancy in both systems, but one has more realistic options.
If we want to look at irrelevancy, we can just take a look at the Vlandian class system, specifically for Levy.
Peasant Levy - Slot One: Pickaxe (meme) Hammer (meme) Improved armour (Takes your total from 5, to 14. lol)
Slot Two: Pitchfork (meme) Billhook (okay) Shield (100 durability, 5 armour. lol)
So, I'm now running around with a Billhook, and Improved Armour. Arguably the best options in that Class. I'm just a discount Volguer, while exceeding the base Volguers armour, with a slightly worse Military Bill. It costs 90 gold to become a Levy, 120 to become a Volguer.
If you aren't blind, you see a clear issue.
This problem persists throughout the Troop Trees of all Factions, with clearly better options existing over others. Whilst literally boiling down to a few points either way; making them "irreverent." I already paid 140 gold to play as a Sergeant - why the **** wouldn't I pick the best two options.
We are trying to force a Class system, in a game that has been renown for it's sandbox. Player options, and opportunity; it's playing directly into the games weakness, and it shows.
We even have an extra slot for armour, the coif. It shouldn't be understated the level of customization and fashion that is plausible in this game - which we are robbed of.
I would argue it is harder to balance a Class system, versus a tier list of items players can choose from that get increasingly more expensive. Other enterprises who have prided themselves on their Class/Hero systems for years still struggle to get balance right. They often don't even come close a lot of the time, and don't have near the longevity that Warbands system has had.
It works good in Commander Battles though. I like it there.
Any argument for a class system is fairly incoherent, and boils down to "irrelevancy" in terms of the selection available to the player, in that specific situation. I think the real word they're looking for here, is options. There is irrelevancy in both systems, but one has more realistic options.
If we want to look at irrelevancy, we can just take a look at the Vlandian class system, specifically for Levy.
Peasant Levy - Slot One: Pickaxe (meme) Hammer (meme) Improved armour (Takes your total from 5, to 14. lol)
Slot Two: Pitchfork (meme) Billhook (okay) Shield (100 durability, 5 armour. lol)
So, I'm now running around with a Billhook, and Improved Armour. Arguably the best options in that Class. I'm just a discount Volguer, while exceeding the base Volguers armour, with a slightly worse Military Bill. It costs 90 gold to become a Levy, 120 to become a Volguer.
If you aren't blind, you see a clear issue.
This problem persists throughout the Troop Trees of all Factions, with clearly better options existing over others. Whilst literally boiling down to a few points either way; making them "irreverent." I already paid 140 gold to play as a Sergeant - why the **** wouldn't I pick the best two options.
We are trying to force a Class system, in a game that has been renown for it's sandbox. Player options, and opportunity; it's playing directly into the games weakness, and it shows.
We even have an extra slot for armour, the coif. It shouldn't be understated the level of customization and fashion that is plausible in this game - which we are robbed of.
I would argue it is harder to balance a Class system, versus a tier list of items players can choose from that get increasingly more expensive. Other enterprises who have prided themselves on their Class/Hero systems for years still struggle to get balance right. They often don't even come close a lot of the time, and don't have near the longevity that Warbands system has had.
It works good in Commander Battles though. I like it there.
mAtAtA
The best term for premade classes i have seen so far.
Bravo ?
That's hilarious!
It was an exaggeration. For a better example... I don't know why anyone would want to play as a peasant with a pitchfork and wooden club when the enemy team is steam rolling with heavy cav and decked out infantry. The snowballing is definitely still there.
Agreed. I have no problem with this class system in Captain's Mode. I don't play it. If the majority of people think it works for that mode, then it should be there. The rest of the game should not be sacrificed for the sake of one mode, however.
1: Most of the choices in Bannerlord are irrelevant. I don't want any of the second perk selections most of the time. Meaning I'm choosing between 3 options, and one of the options is clearly superior most of the time. I have the gameplaye and style chosen for me. I shouldn't have said "Most of the choices in Bannerlord are irrelevant", I should have said that almost all of the time there are no choices.
2: There are other ways to play other than min-maxing, and even that was subject to player preferences. Most of the time in casual play, people weren't min-maxing because they were trying to have fun with unusual gameplay options or gimmicks, and all of those options are now simply gone.
3: I keep seeing new players either stuck on Peasant or not knowing how to change in Bannerlord right now. This is an issue with the occasional moron predominantly. It existed in Warband, and it exists in Bannerlord. In short, this cannot be used as an argument for or against either game.
4: Khergits weren't unbalanced. It's simply that nobody likes playing against horse archers and having their game experience ruined by it.
It completely ruins my game, personally, and disrupts balance. You're free to have your opinion that you like it, or that it doesn't change your experience. It ruins mine.
Anyone who can look at all that choice and only find 1 or 2 playstyles is being willfully blind or has zero imagination.
The short swords have such a tiny swing radius and are so fast that a good player can slice you into ribbons with one. But they have little reach, so they need to facehug (a playstyle). The arming sword is a nice 1 hand weapon, perfect for vanilla "sword and board" (a playstyle). Either weapon is elegant with no shield (a playstyle).
The bastard swords feel quite different from each other, let alone the other weapons. The first bastard sword is faster and can be used effectively as a 1 hander, the second has too much of a speed disadvantage as a 1 hander (imo), but either is a screaming fast 2 hander. One tactic I like to use is hold the shield while I'm running and being shot at, and then switch to 2 hands when I'm in melee range (a playstyle).
The 2 hand sword is a perfect combination of speed, reach, and swordliness. Its sad you think it only belongs on a duel server because it’s my weapon of choice in every mode. The great sword is better in every way but swag.
The awlpikes are different because of reach and cost. I'd usually take the longer one if I can afford it, but it does require you to maintain distance (a playstyle). Like the bastard sword, these can also be played 1 handed or 2 handed and it feels very different. 1 hand with shield is fantastic against cavalry and also when assisting teammates (a playstyle). 2 handed awlpikes can do serious damage against heavy armor and have lots of reach, but you have to maintain distance to avoid getting jammed, watch out for stuns from heavier weapons, and do a lots of spins and feints to open up your opponent’s guard (a playstyle).
Throwing weapons have great utility (take out horses, pummel archers, stun infantry mid-swing) until you get close, or they can be a highly annoying, effective playstyle all on their own.
All of this, AND Swadian infantry is the blandest infantry faction in WB, which is balanced because they also have the strongest cavalry.
im mostly talking about competitive
RCC_God
Knight
Competitive had some interesting choices like picking war spear vs regular spear or picking a **** shield with a good 1h
like spear infantry kekw interesting choice indeed
I'm mostly talking about fun. But any Competitive player worth their salt would have mastered all of those styles and a dozen more besides. Because it would be boring to be limited to the optimal* loadout for ranked tournaments in every situation.
*Optimal wasn't inherently obvious either. Tactics and gear choice evolved over the years.
RCC_God
Knight
Yeah like sometimes people would use a hammer or pike on rhodoks that was pretty interesting
