Penton Neretzes may be related to Arenicos Pehtros' poisoning

[TheWesterlander]

My theory is; after the Battle of Pendraic, Neretzes clan was humiliated and lost it's influence and seeing this, Arenicos found the opportunity and claimed the throne. Penton felt extremely humiliated and saw this as an insult to his clan and himself so he decided to poison Arenicos. He may have thought to himself "If Arenicos dies, I'll be able to inherit the throne without resistance and senate will have to choose me." but this failed and he started a civil war trying to make himself Emperor. He hated it, but he had to pick a side so he chose Lucon. We don't know why he chose him but it was a wise decision to join Lucon instead of starting his own faction. He didn't risk his fiefs and his reputation.

According to you, who poisoned Arenicos and why? Let's discuss.

 

[vonbalt]

I like this theory, he tried to be elected emperor or avenge the humilation to his family's honor by killing the current emperor and trying to blame it on his wife, daughter or the Vaegir guard only for it to fracture the empire into warring factions and the Neretzes see they didn't had support to start a faction of their own decided to lay low and stay loyal to the senate so no one would suspect them.

 

[TheWesterlander]

I like this theory, he tried to be elected emperor or avenge the humilation to his family's honor by killing the current emperor and trying to blame it on his wife, daughter or the Vaegir guard only for it to fracture the empire into warring factions and the Neretzes see they didn't had support to start a faction of their own decided to lay low and stay loyal to the senate so no one would suspect them.

That was a great explanation. Escpecially the things you said about the senate. He didn't risk it, he laid low but bet he's craving to overthrow Lucon and inherit Northern Empire.

 

[fanugi]

I kill Penton every time i capture him because a long time ago my pregnant wife died in a battle against him. I hold grudges. Death to Penton forever!

 

[dannazgu]

Hard to say....

Maybe members of the old families? ( Northern Empire) the Senate

Garios as well, since he was a famous General he probably would be elected the next Emperor

My last suspicion is his wife, Rhaegea, Arenicos' clearly changed his mind about trying to press Ira down the throats of the Noble Families old and new

The Neretzes doesn't have that much power anymore, in fact I hardly doubt they had more than 3 Emperors in their family line

 

[TheWesterlander]

Penton is the true heir to the throne according to the Calradic customs.

Hard to say....

Maybe members of the old families? ( Northern Empire) the Senate

Garios as well, since he was a famous General he probably would be elected the next Emperor

My last suspicion is his wife, Rhaegea, Arenicos' clearly changed his mind about trying to press Ira down the throats of the Noble Families old and new

This makes sense too. Garios is a cunning man he could have done that but Rhagaea always mentions his love and respect to his husband.

 

[Piconi]

I love lore-related discussions, moved this to the Minstrel's Corner straight away, so theories can blossom.

 

[TheWesterlander]

I love lore-related discussions, moved this to the Minstrel's Corner straight away, so theories can blossom.

We haven't provided a proper lore but yet, we can still discuss and make theories. Imagine the discussions when a proper lore is released. God, I wish

 

[Benjamin Bones]

But Penton was already passed over by the Senate for Arenicos... What would make him think that Arenicos' death would get him the throne if he couldn't secure it after his father died...

Rhagaea on the other hand... She seems deft and shrewd...
Arenicos without a male heir... Rhagaea and her daughter just waiting in the wings... Perhaps Arenicos' (un)timely death could be her best/only chance at power...

Think about it.

 

[dannazgu]

Penton is the true heir to the throne according to the Calradic customs.



This makes sense too. Garios is a cunning man he could have done that but Rhagaea always mentions his love and respect to his husband.

Well, so is Ira now, right? But I don't support her, she's wild not that I don't like wild women (haha, joking aside)... But she would be murdered soon as possible just like Darusos "the Divine".

Wild people is the worst generals and statesmen or stateswomen... They simply don't make politics, and after awhwile become tyrants.

But, according to the custom every family there in one time managed to climb to the Imperial Office, not always father was succedd by his son, was custom, but wasn't mandatory.. See what happened to Arenicos, when he tried to make a monarchy? Or allowed people worship him as a God. The way Arenicos died or murdered I would suggest poison... and Who else but the closest to the Emperor could poison him?

 

[TheWesterlander]

But Penton was already passed over by the Senate for Arenicos... What would make him think that Arenicos' death would get him the throne if he couldn't secure it after his father died...

Rhagaea on the other hand... She seems deft and shrewd...
Arenicos without a male heir... Rhagaea and her daughter just waiting in the wings... Perhaps Arenicos' (un)timely death could be her best/only chance at power...

Think about it.

Rhagaea is a wise and a cunning woman I give you that but I don't think she'd risk killing her husband especially when the couple doesn't have a male heir yet. Empire is a radical patriarchist that they don't even give seats to women in Imperial Senate. Also, why would she want to become Empress by killing his husband? If she's wise like you say, she'd know that Calradians wants a man to rule them.

 

[Benjamin Bones]

Rhagaea is a wise and a cunning woman I give you that but I don't think she'd risk killing her husband especially when the couple doesn't have a male heir yet. Empire is a radical patriarchist that they don't even give seats to women in Imperial Senate. Also, why would she want to become Empress by killing his husband? If she's wise like you say, she'd know that Calradians wants a man to rule them.

Patriarchal Indeed! That's why for a women to rule in this culture it would require special circumstances. Arenicos did not name an heir, nor did he have a male heir....

The Senate would be reluctant or completely unwilling to vote for a woman to rule. What scenario would there be for Rhagaea and her daughter Ira to have a legitimate claim to the throne???

Arenicos; sudden death and Rhagaea's insistence of hereditary monarchy...

Just think - what other means would Rhagaea have of claiming the throne for her and her daughter??? None that I can think of.

 

[TheWesterlander]

Well, so is Ira now, right? But I don't support her, she's wild not that I don't like wild women (haha, joking aside)... But she would be murdered soon as possible just like Darusos "the Divine".

Wild people is the worst generals and statesmen or stateswomen... They simply don't make politics, and after awhwile become tyrants.

But, according to the custom every family there in one time managed to climb to the Imperial Office, not always father was succedd by his son, was custom, but wasn't mandatory.. See what happened to Arenicos, when he tried to make a monarchy? Or allowed people worship him as a God. The way Arenicos died or murdered I would suggest poison... and Who else but the closest to the Emperor could poison him?

A very nice argument. That makes Ira, Rhagaea and Pethros clan even more suspicious but why would any Pethros attempt this? Pethros lived their golden ages in times of Arenicos.

 

[Benjamin Bones]

A very nice argument. That makes Ira, Rhagaea and Pethros clan even more suspicious but why would any Pethros attempt this? Pethros lived their golden ages in times of Arenicos.

Pethros is a clan of people. Rhagaea and Ira are individuals with their own individual desires, goals, and perhaps hunger for power.

 

[TheWesterlander]

Pethros is a clan of people. Rhagaea and Ira are individuals with their own individual desires, goals, and perhaps hunger for power.

But what made them kill their patriarch? They didn't wanna share the power I guess? I don't think his own family killed him. Someone was too afraid that he's becoming too strong, and people even taking him for a god. Someone wanted to put an end to his reign.

Members of the Senate could have thought that if Arenicos becomes too powerful, he can dismantle the senate.

 

[dannazgu]

But what made them kill their patriarch? They didn't wanna share the power I guess? I don't think his own family killed him. Someone was too afraid that he's becoming too strong, and people even taking him for a god. Someone wanted to put an end to his reign.

Well, Rhaegea I can understand her daughter was being left out of the Succession, maybe because she was a woman? Maybe because Arenicos didn't want his daughter holding power after knowing her style around the battlefield, with the lowly soldiers? with the social aspect of her life?

And she could only be the Head of the intrigue... his bodyguard could have done it too, of course. And Ira wasn't be elected empress as far I can understand of Calradia... They would go for someone noble. And this one who could retaliate against Arenico's Clan.

I wouldn't be surprised of family memeber of his joined the plot, this was very common in ancient time and Imperial fmailies that hold too many power

 

[Benjamin Bones]

But what made them kill their patriarch?

Personal hunger for power.

They didn't wanna share the power I guess?

But it's a patriarchal society. Why would the dominant male in such a society share power with his wife?

Also, once Arenicos dies (without a male heir) what do you think would happen to Rhagaea and Ira?

Assassinating him could've been their best chance at having power long term - for them and their clan.

 

[dannazgu]

And another thing, Arenico's could have told his wife about his plans for Ira and for the Empire...after his return to Lycaron and the matrimonial reunion to make another baby/heir. In bed Rhaegea, as the daughter of a King, probably mentioned the succession... Arenicos told her and she decided that even if he was old ( maybe 50th), he could still produce another heir, could put her aside and Ira would be given to a political marriage. So, she maybe poisoned his wine after their lovemaking and pretended the emperor was sick or sent the guards away from the door after she came to him, so they couldn't listen to them. ANd later in the night, for dinner when she sent them to call the Emperor they found him dead.

 

[TheWesterlander]

Personal hunger for power.

But it's a patriarchal society. Why would the dominant male in such a society share power with his wife?

Also, once Arenicos dies (without a male heir) what do you think would happen to Rhagaea and Ira?

Assassinating him could've been their best chance at having power long term - for them and their clan.

"So, you say Rhagaea did assasinate the Arenicos to keep Pethros Clan in power? Makes sense but when you ask Rhagaea about politics she says this:

We are the family of the martyred Emperor. Every man wishes to leave what he has to his children, be it a tiny patch of land or the imperial throne. Everyone in Calradia, rich or poor, grasps this. The universal principle of inheritance, not the obscure laws of the Senate, is what makes an Emperor in the eyes of the people.

I will strive to be a good Empress. I'll do my best. But I know well that whoever wins this civil war, landlords will still cheat tenants, city guards will still demand bribes, warriors will still kill men to steal their cattle, drunken husbands will beat wives. The plague and the labor of childbirth will take more lives than all the evils of man put together.

Still, men are willing to fight for me, though it gains them nothing, for no other reason that the throne is my right. I will not betray these men. If I win, in centuries to come, people will think back on my victory and think, 'Heavens smile on those who fight for their rights.' That is all one can do."
-Empress Rhagaea

In the last phrase we see that she didn't expect to be an Empress and has nothing to do with administration which leaves a huge question mark on my head.

 

[Benjamin Bones]

"So, you say Rhagaea did assasinate the Arenicos to keep Pethros Clan in power? Makes sense but when you ask Rhagaea about politics she says this:

We are the family of the martyred Emperor. Every man wishes to leave what he has to his children, be it a tiny patch of land or the imperial throne. Everyone in Calradia, rich or poor, grasps this. The universal principle of inheritance, not the obscure laws of the Senate, is what makes an Emperor in the eyes of the people.

I will strive to be a good Empress. I'll do my best. But I know well that whoever wins this civil war, landlords will still cheat tenants, city guards will still demand bribes, warriors will still kill men to steal their cattle, drunken husbands will beat wives. The plague and the labor of childbirth will take more lives than all the evils of man put together.

Still, men are willing to fight for me, though it gains them nothing, for no other reason that the throne is my right. I will not betray these men. If I win, in centuries to come, people will think back on my victory and think, 'Heavens smile on those who fight for their rights.' That is all one can do."
-Empress Rhagaea

In the last phrase we see that she didn't expect to be an Empress and has nothing to do with administration which leaves a huge question mark on my head.

That's what she claims though. What people say publicly and what is in their hearts are often very different...

Also.... What is that old, sexist, patriarchal saying??? "Poison??? Why, that's a woman's weapon."


However, the complete opposite could be true... It could've been the case that Arenicos actually wanted his daughter Ira to succeed him and the grumpy old stumps in the Senate couldn't stomach being ruled by a woman and killed him before he could publicly announce Ira as his heir...

But honestly, if I were a betting man, I would put my money on Rhagaea - something about her makes me think of Livia Drusilla.